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 Voices For Michael

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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty18th October 2013, 5:41 pm

posted by The Fairy on Thursday, December 22nd 2011

People Defend The Truth About Michael Jackson
JC Agajanian’s stunning interview about Michael Jackson. HE WILL NEVER BE REPLACED
August 29, 2011

Dear friends, let us all join together in celebrating Michael Jackson’s birthday today.

Voices For Michael - Page 3 Jc-agajanian-at-the-stadium

A small gift has been reserved for the day. It is the work done by a team of Michael’s supporters who transcribed the interview of an old friend of Michael Jackson, JC Agajanian JR (made in July 2009). The man was a radio guest at the Haunted Saloon and his account of the time his family spent with Michael is something really extraordinary – it is heart-warming, fiery and exceptionally sincere.

And this in spite of the fact that JC Agajanian JR is absolutely not prone to idealizing people. He comes from the famous racing Agajanian family and is son to JC Agajanian, who has been inducted into the National Midget Car Racing Hall of Fame. The Agajanian family has been running the Turkey Grand Prix race for decades now and it is JC Agajanian Jr. who is keeping up with the tradition and continuing with racing business.

In short he is no nonsense man and this makes his memories of Michael Jackson all the more precious to us.

Please listen to Mr. Agajanian vehement support for Michael Jackson and read the transcripts that follow:



video deleted/removed

Ike: The gentleman on the phone is Mr JC Agajanian, Junior. JC is a dear friend of Michael’s, and you’ve spent many times with him and I thought, “Boy, we gotta have you on the Haunted Saloon tonight to talk about Michael Jackson. Welcome to the Haunted Saloon, JC. We lost another good one, didn’t we?

JC: And just to be serious for a moment, David, I gotta tell you we did lose in fact, I believe the world, in fact lost, a very, very special talent. And I think that’s something we need to keep in mind when all of the lies and baloney and all the speculation and all the gossiping and all of that is come and gone, the bottom line is that we lost somebody that will really never be replaced.

Ike: Yes, and you know Jay, tell us about some of your experiences, like that you’ve told me, tell us on the Haunted Saloon. Tell us about the time you spent two weeks up at the Neverland Ranch, with Michael.

JC: Well, you know what… it was a pretty special deal and I have to give you a little background, a friend of ours that I know both Bartender Bruce and yourself both met, went back in the old Ascot days, Sandy Seamen who went onto LA Gear tennis shoe company that hired Michael to work for him and that’s how I got to know Michael.

So… really that was my entree and I have three kids, JC the Third, and David, JC is his middle name of course, and Amy, and they were doing a commercial for LA Gear and they were on set when Michael was there to do a commercial.

Frankly, the kids and Michael got along, there were a lot of other kids there that were going to be in the commercial. Of course, LA Gear makes adult and children’s shoes, so it was a natural set up. Michael was there… wait, in fact, I’ll tell you what, my wife Francie was the one who went to this commercial shoot and I was with you guys that night and we were working and they were working too, you might say. Michael said that sometime we had to come out to Neverland Valley…

Wife: Ranch (inaudible, speaking to husband in background)

Voices For Michael - Page 3 Neverland-neverland-valley-ranch-23934125-650-426

Ike: And that’s another thing that my wife Francie has reminded me of, it was a ranch, it was beautiful and it was… he had horses and it had reindeers and he really liked horses and that’s really something that I think everyone in the Haunted Saloon that’s listening maybe didn’t know about Michael… He appreciated wild life, he appreciated of course all the exotics that were there. They had wild horses walking around, they had giraffes, when we were there a little baby giraffe was born.

But we were invited up to, and I won’t stretch this enough, we were invited up to Neverland, which we thought he was saying just to be nice and we spent quite a bit of time up there and he wanted us up there as parents and he really enjoyed, really, having the kids up there as well.

Right, you know, as soon as I say that I know there’s gonna be eyebrows going up, but it wasn’t like that, and I have to tell you, his honesty in these interviews, is what I think got him in trouble. And him just saying stuff from his heart, stuff that was just how he felt honestly, adults would look at it and raise an eyebrow, twist what he says and make it not his intention.

Voices For Michael - Page 3 Neverland-in-the-morning-neverland-valley-ranch-19470607-634-418
Neverland in the morning. All pictures are from: http://www.fanpop.com/spots/neverland-valley-ranch/images/19487929/title/sign-near-entrance-photo

So the place was just gorgeous, it was Disneyland, it was 2500 acres and most of it was manicured. It was really just a fun place to be. He was a very generous, generous person. The kids would run around, they’d have their jackets on or they’d throw them on the ground, or tennis shoes, throw them off and go get on the big giant trampoline that was on the same ground as the big giant swimming pool.

That evening whatever was taken off was washed and magically folded and put back in their rooms. The staff there was just unbelievable. Water balloon fights, he had an Indian village that we were welcome to stay in overnight. We had dinner brought up to the Indian village, we ate in the teepees, there were heaters in there, it was just everything you could think of. Let me entertain any questions you might have, Ike.

Ike: Is it not true that your own kids wanted to go to court and testify, because they’d been there many, many times and never had a problem. Isn’t that true that they wanted to go to court?

JC: Well you’re absolutely right Ike and in fact Michael’s lawyers had called and asked if my kids would be interested in testifying on behalf of Michael and they were ready to fly – JC3 and David up from San Diego and Amy here from Hermosa Beach and fly them up, but at the last minute they didn’t need any more character witnesses.


JC: But let me tell you something that came up about his bedroom, and the “secret room” and all this stuff that went on. Francie and I were in his bedroom, my kids were in his bedroom, his bedroom was a playland, it had Disney things in there, it was like a living room. And when he said, “I invited kids in my bed” [sorry, JC, Michael never said it – he simply said he gave his bed to others] it’s… first of all, any kids that wanted to have a slumber party there, the “secret room” that they referred to that was locked up and so on, that was where he went to sleep.

When he said, “I’d be happy to give my bed to kids”… what he meant by that was, when he grew up, he didn’t have a bed. All the Jackson kids slept in one room. To be able to sleep in the bed was a big deal! And the people just didn’t understand that what he was saying was, when you give someone where you sleep and you leave and you go to another room to sleep, you’re giving them the bed, you’re sharing the most you have.

It’s like sitting at the table and going, “Yeah, you could have this steak and go eat, I’ll eat the beans over here.” They just didn’t understand and his honesty in saying that got him in trouble.

Ike: Yeah, I know that, it’s just you know, you fascinated me before when we talked about this and you told me a lot of different stories. You told me one that when you first got there, he walked you around the garden and there was like, “zanes” and things around the garden, or something?


JC: Yeah, you know what Ike, when you called last night and asked if I’d share some of my memories and thoughts about Michael after he passed, of course because you called me and because you and Bruce called me and asked me to come on the show, I said okay, but I’ve been asked to do other interviews that I’ve turned down.

Voices For Michael - Page 3 Neverland-house-dining-room-neverland-valley-ranch-19500496-670-555

One night when we were sitting at Michael’s dinner table and it was a beautiful dinner table, it was a beautiful Tudor house that he had and it was four stories and he had a wonderful cook that cooked whatever and in fact before we got up to Neverland they were asking, what did the kids like to eat? They wanted to have whatever they liked on him.

But we were sitting there at the dinner table and of course we – I made a point of saying a prayer before dinner, Michael was a spiritual guy, nobody’s ever said anything like that, they don’t let you know, but we had a prayer at the dinner table before we started to eat dinner, and as we were eating we were talking about various things.

And believe me, Michael insisted that we ask any question that we have, if we saw something in the news, if we heard something about elephant man bones or if we heard sleeping in chambers, any of that – ask me, ask me whatever you want, and believe me, my wife Francie that both you guys know, did ask plenty of questions, but Michael looked at the kids that night at dinner, we were about two thirds of the way through and he said “Listen kids, I don’t necessarily want you to tell anyone about our friendship when you get back to your schools.”

And they looked at each other puzzled and looked at Michael puzzled and said, “But Michael, why not?” And Michael looked at them and said, “There’s a lot of mean people out there and there’s a lot people who say mean things about me and I don’t want you to have to be put in a position to defend me.”

So, I think so much of your kids that I don’t want them to have to defend me and get in fights and say, “No, Michael’s really a good guy and don’t say bad about him.” He was so thoughtful that he was asking the kids to keep our happy time and our friendship private and not share it and he was always selfless like that, Ike.

Ike: Uh, that’s really something, you know that, and it’s really actually very sad that he had to go to those extremes.

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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty18th October 2013, 5:44 pm

posted by The Fairy on Thursday, December 22nd 2011

Part 2


Ike: Uh, that’s really something, you know that, and it’s really actually very sad that he had to go to those extremes.

Voices For Michael - Page 3 Mj-and-kids-in-s-africa-1999
"He was a very loving father". South Africa, 1999

JC:…it really was, he never had a chance to any time to himself, he grew up, as everybody knows, without a childhood, you and Bruce know that he worked since he was a little kid. And don’t forget that there were many facets to Michael, what a lot of the people saw on television that was the celebrity factor; there was also a loving father, and that is NOT a joke, he was a VERY loving father; and there was also the kind generous friend, he was without question that.

And he was very shy, when we first got up to Neverland, he had his sunglasses on, he had on his hat, he was shy just seeing us again, but eventually he warmed up to you.
But you’re right, when we first got up there he put us in a golf kart, a special golf cart, that was a long one, and took us all around the ranch which was just –

When we went up there we thought we were coming to a ranch that was kind of like a cowboy ranch. Like the Haunted Saloon like what would be just outside your doors there. Dirt, horses, and so on. But it was actually what we see on television now, rides and movie theatre, he took us all around, to see all of his records –

But I just thought of something, if I can just continue, you know me I’m really short on words but… [Laughter] …uh thank you Bruce –

Voices For Michael - Page 3 Neverland-map-neverland-valley-ranch-19430897-384-500

Neverland map. The movie theater is a separate building on the left (#24)

He had a movie theatre that was set up for children that were sick, that were terminally ill, it was a movie theatre, lovely seats, rocking type of upholstered chairs, there were about 35-45 seats, a full size movie theatre, screen, behind us a regular projection, that you would see in a regular large movie theatre, uh the projection room was above us, but at the back of the movie theatre behind the seats, were two bedrooms.

Those bedrooms had full floor to ceiling glass, those rooms were supplied with oxygen, and a hospital bed, a large hospital bed like a double bed that could tilt up.

And any kids that came out to the ranch, whether they were from Make-a-Wish Foundation or any of them, they were welcome to come in and see these first-run movies, to see things that maybe they couldn’t go see in the theatre because they don’t have oxygen in a movie theatre, and Michael went through a lot of expense and a lot of trouble to have these two rooms for kids that were terminally ill to come and be at the ranch and see movies and so on …

…Gosh there’s just so many stories that never make the newspapers, never report about Michael, his generosity and how much he truly loves children, and like we were talking about earlier, his inability to have a childhood, so part of him was childlike because he never had that childhood, he envied the children that were outside playing in the park while he was rehearsing, while he was singing, while he was practicing his dance moves.

While Joe was cracking the whip – and I don’t mean that in a bad way! – But Joe worked in a steel mill in Indiana and he took these kids from nothing to right up to the top of the line, the were talented, but he bought instruments he bought everything they needed, and he gave up himself, and yes, he swatted the kids and I have to admit that JC and David [his sons] have been swatted a couple of times too, it may not be politically correct, but it is Armenian correct and that is what we have to do!
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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty18th October 2013, 5:49 pm

posted by mjmtc on Thursday, December 22nd 2011

Part 3


Ike: So you, as well as the whole world, we were so shocked to hear that too. It was so shocking.

JC: It was shocking and I’ll tell you what. We knew Michael some years ago. I know that he had a problem with painkillers from when he had gotten burned doing the Pepsi ad – that was some years ago – and he had … really a lot of pain that followed that. And I believe that he was in a lot of emotional pain as well.

He carried a lot of things, he internalized a lot of things, he didn’t have many people that he can, he could confide in, and he really… I don’t want to say ‘admired’, because that might be the wrong word – but really enjoyed being around a family like the Agajanian family were, where there was just a mom and dad and kids that liked to mess around and meddle ……… and say “sit down” and “don’t make so much noise” and just correct them and ……… and he’d laugh. He just really enjoyed being around real people because he was surrounded with people who were either “yes” men or interested in what they could get from him. And we were neither.

Ike: Yeah, exactly. You were just the regular folk and he liked that.


Voices For Michael - Page 3 Jc-agajanian-and-francie-with-joe-benson
JC Agajanian, his wife Francie and Joy Benson

JC: Yeah, you know… the kids loved to ride horses. The kids would go to a cowboy camp, down near Oceanside, inland. I guess, where was that, Francie?…. Oh, …. California, that’s where this cowboy camp was. They go every year there. They loved i!. Everything was period, everything… there were gun fights in the streets when we brought the kids – and it was just… it was perfect. It was like Tombstone, but a smaller version. The kids learned how to ride properly, they learned roping, they learned everything in that area.

When they got to Neverland, Michael who had horses and wranglers that were full time there, asked the kids if they wanted to go riding, and of course they said “Yes!” , and in fact it was at the dinner table and he said “Well, just call the person in charge, call the head wrangler, tell him what time you want to go out on the horses, and he’ll have them ready for you.”

So the kids said “Let’s go tomorrow morning”, and they did that. Of course I didn’t get up (laughs), Francie was the one who got up with the kids, got them situated with the wranglers and went to breakfast in the main house. Our living quarters were just outside the main Tudor house that Michael lived in, and we lived on a little lake when we were there. A very beautiful setting.

So, I went back to sleep, and about an hour or two later I get a knock on the door……Michael had a full security setup, he had officers there, he had security cameras everywhere, he could watch, if children who were invited there if they were getting in trouble, or near a pool, full security. Security guards that were mobile, security guards in full uniform, the entire property was secured and safe. He had his own fire department. He had his own helicopter, paramedics. Everything was on site.

It couldn’t have been a safer place to go, no matter what. And a lot of this stuff, the gossip that goes on, it couldn’t have happened because I went into the security room, which was a secret area, a private area, and there were cameras, and there were screens that could see everywhere at Neverland. They were never not watched, no matter where.


JC: So the kids got on the horse with the wrangler, wrangler up front, a wrangler in the back, my three kids in between, as they went up into hills, Francie was with them. I am sorry, I forgot you were with the kids! And as they’re going up into the hills there are bears, deer, and so on and so on in the hills around that area. They were going up a trail, and evidently the horse smelled bear, they can smell bear, it frightened them, and there was some movement in the bushes, and all the horses reared, and spun around, and started running full speed down the hill, back towards the barn, and safety. They were out of control, literally.

As they got to the bottom, JC was able to whoa his horse, because he was a bigger kid at the time, and all the kids knew riding, but the horses were running out of control. David, who is our middle son and is a gymnast, jumped off and rolled and he got banged up a little bit but was OK, but our youngest Amy was thrown off the horse, hit the ground, and her head hit the ground terribly, and she was knocked out. Francie was also thrown from the horse, and was unconscious on the ground.

Within minutes, paramedics were there, ambulance was there, and I had a security guard – as I told you earlier come to my door, because I had gone back to bed. And I got dressed right away.

“Mr. Agajanian we have a situation, we need to take you away immediately.” I scrambled and jumped in the cart, rode straight to where they were, and there were fire engines and lights going and everything. It was immediately taken care of, and I rode into town with Amy.

And in the ambulance she was beginning to convulse. I was so frightened, I was worried that we were gonna lose her. Francie was in the same ambulance, and she was out of it, she didn’t know where she was. She thought she did but she certainly didn’t. We got to the emergency room, and they said “You’re gonna have to go into town!”, they took us in another ambulance immediately to Cottage Hospital, which is down near Santa Barbara, I think.

Voices For Michael - Page 3 Amy-agajanian
Amy Agajanian on Oprah's show

All I have to say is Michael’s people were at that hospital from the time we were in there, I was praying in that hospital, I was very worried that we were gonna lose Amy, and she had the brain scan, there was some swelling, but she was OK. And Michael’s people were there the whole time. What Francie? Oh, she had a fractured skull!

But we were guests there, and Michael’s people were worried that we were going to sue Neverland, and sue Michael, and so on, and one of his attorneys called and asked how we were doing, and asked if there was going to be any litigation, and of course we said “Friends don’t sue friends over accidents!”. Amy was OK after that, but Michael had a limo at the hospital for us, and he would have come to the hospital himself but it would have created too much craziness.

So he would take us back and forth to dinner back to the house, and run Francie and I back and forth to the hospital, Francie stayed with Amy, and Michael that morning had left to do a recording session in town, and when he heard that Amy was hurt, he sent all of the musicians home, and got in a helicopter, which he didn’t like to do, he didn’t really like flying at all, he would have rather a limo or taken his transportation, but he flew out there, and even though he couldn’t go to the hospital, he stayed at Neverland, and stayed on duty until he found out that Amy was OK, and it just showed the kind of guy he was.

He stopped his work, and sent, it was probably close to 100 people and musicians recording and all that, home so he could come out there because he had heard that my daughter had hurt herself at Neverland. I know it’s a long-winded story, and I apologize to the guests, and you and Bruce, but this stuff just comes out of me guys, when I hear… when I hear things said about a guy who was really an innocent, honest, loving, and caring guy, I just need to tell my side of the story.

Ike: Well said, well said. We thank you for sharing those stories tonight with us.

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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty18th October 2013, 6:00 pm

posted by mjmtc on Thursday, December 22nd 2011

Part 4


Ike: We thank you for sharing those stories tonight with us.

Bruce has a question: Your impression of the way the news media has treated him in the last 48 to 72 hours.

JC: Tragedy. Tragedy, Bruce. The way they treated him is the way they treated him his whole life; like a freak show!

I’m asking everyone, I’m begging everyone to just reserve your comments, I’m begging you to NOT listen to the gossip, to NOT listen to the sensationalism. Yes, Michael had many facets to him, many sides, and yes he was having a problem with drugs, as many people do in our society, but he wasn’t a monster, he was NOT a child molester.

Voices For Michael - Page 3 Chandlers
JC Agajanian about Jordan Chandler: "The first kid said, 'I can't go up there and lie about Michael' and this is when their case fell apart"

I have a ton of stories guys, next time I see you guys I’ll tell you stories about why and how those lawsuits “just went away”, and why the first kid refused to go on the stand as his father wanted to, to tell lies about Michael, and he told his father “I can’t go on the stand! I don’t care how much money you’re gonna get, I don’t care about the future of doing a recording company”, like his dad wanted to, “I can’t go up there and lie about Michael”, and that’s when their case fell apart.

And the $25 million dollars to their family, never happened. It went into a trust fund, and it was not that much money, it was a much smaller amount, it was all blown up out of proportion.


JC: And just wait until you try and get a handle on the truth everyone, because right now I just watched “Extra” before I called your show, and they were showing things like I just told you about, “There’s some mysterious hidden room, and it’s lined with children’s toys…”, and it’s just a bunch of baloney!

It was a room with toys for kids that were sick that came over, and there were tables with toys to play with, and there was an arts and crafts room, and all of this was there, and it was a room that you can just walk into, on the second floor of the Tudor house!

Voices For Michael - Page 3 Michael-in-a-house-bedroom-neverland-valley-ranch-19488559-1200-8921
Michael and Prince in a house bedroom. Neverland

And only this room that I just told you about – it was his private bedroom, where he would go when the kids would want to have a slumber party – he left and slept in his other room by himself. He gave his bed. He invited the kids [he never did, they crawled in all by themselves] to sleep in his bed. He wasn’t in it! He made a point of that.

But it’s just been twisted, and I’m just asking everyone to please, DON’T listen to the lies, DON’T’ listen to the gossip, DON’T listen to the stuff that’s just made up, although I know you don’t know how to figure out what has sensationalism and what has little chunks of truth, but like I said Francie and I were just watching not only Access Hollywood, but all the rest of them, and they take these things that I just told you about, and they twist them, and make them sound weird and strange, and it’s just not so.

Everything had a reason for it.

Ike: Yeah, and there’s a lot of speculation out there, I think the one thing that I did notice though is, observing, the fact that he was so frail, and he looked like he was just a little over over 100 pounds or so.

JC: Yes, that’s true. He was never a big guy. He was a little guy to start with. He was always thin.

And I really think a couple of things, you know. First of all, he was a vegetarian, he was very conscious of his health. He would meditate. He would exercise. He did a lot of work and he tried to keep his weight down so he could dance, he did a lot of things to try and be as fit as possible. So I think near the end here, as he wasn’t well, and he wasn’t, and I think there were some illnesses that were not detected. He was always very slight, but it got out of hand.

Ike: So you say he was a vegetarian? What kind of things did you eat when you were there?

JC: Say that again? I’m sorry.

Ike: You said he was a vegetarian.

JC: He would have anything the kids wanted, from hot dogs to hamburgers to steaks, and so on.

Voices For Michael - Page 3 Neverland-banquet-tables-neverland-valley-ranch-19461266-600-4002
A long banquet table stretches out under a tree in the grounds behind the main house at Neverland Ranch

He didn’t have any booze at Neverland while I was there. I know someone said there was no alcohol. I know someone said that underneath the game room that there was a wine cellar with some very, very wonderful wines and stuff. He may have had that for special guests.

But there was not booze available to anyone while you were at Neverland. And it didn’t matter if it was us, or the kids, or anybody. No booze, no alcohol was available. And he would have, now don’t forget he had a fabulous, he had 2 chefs in this wonderful kitchen there, and they would make Michael’s food for him, that they knew that he liked, and so he ate Indian food, he ate a lot of vegetarian meals, and Fracie just reminded me that when we had hot dogs, he’d have a tofu hot dog, or something that appeared to be a hot dog, and tasted like a hot dog, but was something in his diet.


JC: And that’s why it’s hard to fathom a guy who was so self-conscious about his shape. Now don’t forget he was 50 years old!

He was very young looking, but he was 50 years old, and he still danced like a 20 year old. And that’s coming out when you’re hearing about the rehearsals for the London tour that was right here in Staples Center in Los Angeles.

Ike: Jay, I hate to cut you off, we have to move on now, but man I want to thank you so much for sharing those stories with us.

JC: You’re sure welcome, and I’ll tell you what, this is the only show that’s gonna hear any of this from me. I’ve already turned down other interviews, and I wanted you and Bruce and your listeners worldwide to hear this information and know from somebody that was firsthand there, and will call BOLONEY on the people that are saying stuff.

Yeah, he had a hard time other parts of his life, but he was a kind, generous gentleman, and that’s how he should be remembered.

Ike: Well said. Thank you so much Jay!

Lady: Well, I know that people have said a lot of things about Mr. Jackson over the years, but the thing that I really think is most important right now is three children have lost their father. And that’s the most important thing. And all of us who are parents understand that more than anything, that’s the thing to focus on. Three children have lost their father.

JC: Absolutely. God bless you, that’s the truth, and let that not be lost with all the craziness.

Ike: Thank you so much, Jay!

JC: Thanks everybody at the Haunted Saloon! We love you guys! We wish you the best!

Ike: Love you too!

* * *



As a Postscriptum to the above here is what the team member Rockforevenron wrote to us about Amy Agajanian, Mr. Agajanian’s daughter with whom she managed to talk on the phone.

There are several remarkable things about Amy’s memories of Michael. One of them is this – though Michael spent a lot of time with Amy – more than with her brothers – he never allowed the little girl to stay alone in his room as he took special care not to put her in any compromising situation whatsoever (he was an old-fashioned type of a guy). It didn’t dawn on poor Michael that by driving girls away from his bedroom he was only giving food for nasty innuendos to those media beasts…

Rockforeveron’s story:

“Amy was a very close little pal to Michael in the early 90s, kept up with him a little over the years, is a young woman now who, along with her family, is utterly devastated by Michael’s death. I talked to her on the phone for over an hour a few months ago.

She doesn’t remember or know much legal stuff, other than the whole family was at the airport waiting to testify on MJ’s behalf, when they were disappointed to get called by the lawyer and told they wouldn’t be testifying. She also was at a Neverland celebration afterward and said it was so joyous! Everyone singing! Her older brothers were allowed to sleep over at the house, but even though she was MJ’s closest pal and spent far more time with him than the boys, she was relegated to a guesthouse with her mother. She was pissed! Michael explained to her it wasn’t proper for little girls to be in his house overnight unchaperoned. Michael’s feelings about this explain completely why it was always boys overnight. But you hear nothing about his little girl pals.

She said she thinks she was MJ’s best friend (but of course she wouldn’t really know for sure) until Lisa Marie came along. She told me about accompanying the couple to a few outings, and she BURNED with jealousy, the poor little thing. She said it was obvious they were in love, always holding hands and kissing. So Michael started finding less and less time for her.

Oh, in the interest of fairness to LMP , she said LMP was as sweet as could be to her and she did come to like her.

And… she said she’d love to come on this forum and answer questions, loves to talk about MJ but no one ever asks her (?!).

She was the one on Oprah, and who walked with him hand-in-hand at the Superbowl. She described the thrill of it to me. She said she had no idea it was that big a deal or that Michael was that big a deal, and was utterly stunned and overwhelmed. Michael just told her they were going to a concert, so she had no idea what to expect. She hadn’t known Michael was famous until that moment. Can you imagine?”

Indeed, can all of us imagine that Michael never told those children about his fame? And these media beasts say he wanted to impress the children and lure them into his life by the shine of his gold? It was absolutely the other way about! He wanted the children to give him the feeling of what normal like is like and what it feels to be a simple and ordinary person…

Amy and her parents were guests on Oprah in February 1993, on the same day that her live interview with MJ aired. Here is the video of Amy Agajanian on Oprah’s show:

And a partial transcript from http://lacienegasmiled.wordpress.com/2011/01/01/the-invisible-children-michael-jacksons-female-kid-friends/
Oprah: “Michael Jackson as we’ve often heard is surrounded by children and through the years he’s befriended young actors like Emmanuel Lewis and Macauley Culkin. But you don’t have to be a child star to get Michael’s attention. I first met my next guest when I was visiting Michael’s ranch a few weeks ago to shoot the promos. Her best friend just happens to be the biggest superstar in the world and the whole universe saw her at Michael’s side during his superbowl performance, please meet Amy. Amy, we’re glad to have you here. On the day we were there shooting our promo Amy wanted us to finish so we could go out and play with Michael, isn’t that right?”
Amy: (nods her head)
Oprah: “What’s he really like, Amy?”
Amy: “He’s just like a kid. He wants to stay a kid but he grew up.”
Oprah: “Do you spend a lot of time with him?”
Amy: “When I go up there I spend almost most of my time with him playing.”
Oprah: “What do you play?”
Amy: “I play on his rides and we play hide-and-go-seek.”
Oprah: “And how did you meet him? We want to know so we can do the same thing.”
Amy: “Well I was doing a commercial with him. I was four and I didn’t know anything about him. And I went into his trailer and sat right up on his lap and he said to himself that he was going to be friends for life.”
Oprah: “The two of you?”
Amy: (nods)

My very big thanks to all the people who helped collect and transcribe the material for this post – Tamia, KC, Rockforeveron and David Edwards. I am sure that Michael is happy seeing us together in doing one job.

Happy birthday to you, Michael!
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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty18th October 2013, 6:09 pm

posted by Nimue on Monday, May 7th 2012

This blog is interesting, someone which was not Michael's fan or even fan of his music decided to so some research looking for Michael as a human being. This person does not know about the hoax, it seems, but I found interesting how people started to ask themselves how Michael really is instead trusting on tabloid garbage.

I may not agree with some points there but it is a good reading. It is too long I will post part of it and you can read the rest at the site:

Michael Jackson: Setting The Record Straight (a Q&A)


I've created this lens in attempt to clearly answer some of the most asked, re-asked and asked again questions concerning Michael Jackson.

While I was never a strong supporter Jackson in the past (or even a huge fan of his music) I have nevertheless found him to be a very fascinating and inspirational figure in popular culture. Lately I've taken it upon myself to read more into his life, his achievements and the plethora of rumors which have surrounded his character for so many years. And what I've learned has not only surprised me, but has given me a new outlook on human nature and all that it's capable of; the good and the bad.

Michael Jackson spent nearly all of his adult life devoted to helping children, our environment, and bringing people of all races together to make the world a better place. He was literally the most famous man in the world and one of the wealthiest and most powerful performers there ever was. He was a master at his craft and he devoted all of his talents and influence to the betterment of mankind.

By giving millions of dollars to a vast array of charities (more than any other popular artist in history); by writing music that preached of love, charity and goodwill; by taking time to personally visit and help the sick and poverty-stricken around the world; by building a complete amusement park in his own back yard to share with those children; by doing all of this, Michael Jackson showed how one person could use all of his achievements for a greater good than himself. Yet, no matter how extraordinary and noble these actions may have been, they would continuously be overlooked. Rumors, scandals, hearsay and accusations took their place, overshadowing them all.

And it's this that disturbs me the most about the life of Michael Jackson: That not only the public could be blinded by these things, but I myself could have been as well. It shames me to know that such a selfless and charitable individual could have lived and, instead of praising him, we chose judged him, ridicule him, and sully his name. All for no reason other than the fact that he was different -- and oh how suspicious we felt that difference made him.

I've spent the past few weeks going through court transcripts, reading through various interviews, and learning all that I could about Michael Jackson and his actions. The search was long, at times tedious, but never boring. And the truth I've found in them will stick with me for the rest of my life.

My hope in writing this lens, and sharing my findings, is that perhaps after others have all the information in front of them they too will gain somewhat of a better understanding of who Michael Jackson was. And then realize that beyond the dancing, beyond the singing, and beyond each and every one of the eccentricities and idiosyncrasies, Michael Jackson was a man with a genuine love and care for this world -- a man who actually did the kind of things for our planet and the people in it, that most of us only dream of.

Respect Michael Jackson for the facts known about him. Don't condemn him over the rumors.
Table of Contents (find your question)
If you would rather skip the prologue, simply scroll down to the contents below
Many may be wondering why there are so many unusual questions and mysteries about Michael Jackson's life in the first place. You may find it alarmingly suspicious that any one man could have this many rumors and speculations about him without actually being guilty of something in some way.

When you think this, you may read through these questions I've listed below and, regardless of the answers, still doubt that everything was O.K. about Michael Jackson; because it's just not normal to have this much mystery surrounding one human life.

You may think this, but before you jump to conclusions you must keep in context who Michael Jackson was and how different his life has been from anyone else's on Earth.

Voices For Michael - Page 3 3951916063_9a30f54dd2

Michael Jackson was a man who gained a massive amount of fame before he had even hit high school. A fame so large and widespread that he was incapable of even attending public school as a young child for fear of the many fans and curious public who would crowd the schools just to get a glimpse of the "prodigy" in action. Since Jackson never quit working, and never quit making hit music, this type of fame never had a chance to subside -- not even a notch. Instead, the fame only grew. And his fan base became larger and larger for four whole decades -- without ever losing momentum.

This literally made Michael Jackson the most famous living human being in the world. Because of this fame, Jackson had become incapable of exiting his home without huge mobs of people (fans and non-fans) gathering around him, screaming his name, and fighting for even a mere glimpse of his presence; all desperate to see the legend in person. To gain a better perspective of this fame, think back to 2001, when Times Square actually had to be shut down because the streets had become so chaotic with people who had all come to see Michael Jackson, who was making a rare public appearance. The kicker here is that he wasn't even performing that day.

Now if you keep all of this in mind and make a true attempt to realize how unusual this life Michael Jackson had grown up in was, then perhaps it will be easier to understand why he had no chance at what many have chosen to call a "normal life."

Rumors and scandals surrounded Jackson's life more than your average celebrity because he was more than your average celebrity. "The bigger the star, the bigger the target" Jackson himself once said, and it's a statement that couldn't be more true. If you constantly dissect, analyze, and theorize over every little aspect of one persons life. . . then you're bound to come up with some unusual explanations.

As the Reverend Al Sharpton stated at Michael Jackson's Memorial Service, there was nothing strange about Michael Jackson. . . what was strange was what he had to deal with.

Michael Jackson in Times Square in 2001
Voices For Michael - Page 3 3952569214_ca9ca16694

Was Michael Jackson only famous because he was weird?
How much plastic surgery did Michael Jackson really have?
Was Michael really bald?
Why did Michael Jackson start wearing the white glove?
Why did Michael always wear that surgical mask around?
Did Joe Jackson (Michael's father) really beat his kids?
Did Michael Jackson really bleach his skin to become a white man?
Why did Michael always cover his kids faces with masks?
What's the deal with the Neverland Ranch, was it a lure for children?
Why was Michael accused of molestation 2 times if he was innocent? And why let kids sleepover in the first place?
Was child pornography really found in Michael Jackson's house?
How would you explain that one kid giving such a perfect description of Michaels genitals?
Did Michael really hold a family captive?
What is Jesus Juice, and did Michael really liquor up kids with it?
Why would Michael's own sister, La Toya Jackson, say he was a pedophile if it weren't true?
Why did Michael Jackson appear to be so awkward when it came to women?
Why did Michael always keep an umbrella over his head when in public?
Did Michael really own the rights to the Beatles' songs?
Did Michael really fly away on a jetpack at the end of one of his concerts?
What happened to Bubbles... you know, the monkey?
Did Michael really own the Gone With The Wind Oscar?
Why should we remember Michael Jackson?
Getting To Know Michael Jackson

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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty18th October 2013, 6:15 pm

posted by Nimue on Wednesday, May 9th 2012

Fairy, I know we have a thread related to this, but I think this deserves some kind of highlight.

I am not going to express my opinion about Rabbi Shmuley, but I feel I should post it here. Feel free to delete the thread.

The Revolting Lie That Michael Jackson Was a Nazi Sympathizer

All a man has in this world is his good name. The book of Ecclesiastes says that a good name is better than fine oil. Our reputations determine what others think of our character. We have a right, therefore, to defend our name against scurrilous and slanderous attack. When those we know cannot defend themselves, we must stand up and speak out on their behalf.

I generally try to avoid the gossip that is so often said and writing about Michael Jackson. Libraries of nonsense have been written about him, and now that he is tragically no longer alive, he cannot defend himself. In general I see no point in highlighting slanderous material about him by responding to it.

But several headlines recently caught my attention when I heard that a man who claims to have worked as Michael's bodyguard made the incredulous charge that Michael was a Nazi sympathizer. This kind of viciousness should usually not be responded to because it just gives it more credibility for the retelling. But the slander against Michael's name in this instance is so great that it deserves to be rebutted.

As is well known, I was Michael's Rabbi for two years. During that time, we discussed every subject under the sun. A great deal of it was captured in the conversations we recorded specifically for publication in the books that became The Michael Jackson Tapes and its follow up, Honoring the Child Spirit. In one of those conversations, Michael spoke of Hitler's mesmerizing oratorical skills. He said that oratory is in many ways one of the most effective tools that evil uses to manipulate others and thereby gain power. Michael argued that Hitler used many of the same techniques that showbiz performers use today in order to manipulate audiences and steer them toward evil deed. I was disheartened when the book was first published to see some newspapers highlight these comments of Michael completely out of context and misrepresent him as someone who could have admired Hitler. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Michael detested and despised anyone who would do harm to another human being, especially the Nazis who gassed six million Jews, one and a half million of whom were children. Michael loathed everything Hitler stood for. As I have consistently stated, Michael was a great friend of the Jewish people. He celebrated his relationship with the Jewish community and never shied from demonstrating how much he learned from Judaism through our conversations and friendship.

In one of our first meetings I gave him a mezuzah as a gift, which consists of a small scroll from the Torah that is affixed to the doorpost. I did not give it to him with the intention that he put it on his door as his was not a Jewish home. Nevertheless, Michael insisted that we put it on the front door of his rented home in Manhattan. A few weeks later he came with me to the Carlebach Synagogue in Manhattan one of the happiest days of the Jewish calendar, Shemini Atzeret, and told me later, as part of The Michael Jackson Tapes, that it was the happiest night of his life.

As the boy superstar of the Jackson 5, Michael had a Jewish tutor who traveled with him and helped to raise him whose name was Rose Fine. Michael spoke of her in The Michael Jackson Tapes with great affection and revealed to me that he and Janet covered many of his former tutor's expenses as she aged. In one of the conversations he says that as the group's plane landed in Germany, Mrs. Fine became agitated. Michael asked her why and she shared with him the horrors of the Holocaust. He was just a boy and it was the first time he had heard of the wholesale slaughter or Europe's Jews.

Later, I would take Michael to meet and converse with my dear friend, Nobel Peace Laureate Elie Wiesel -- arguably the greatest living Jewish personality -- who further shared with him the horrors of the Holocaust and the importance of reconciliation and love. Prof. Wiesel showed Michael boundless acceptance and affection, which Michael warmly reciprocated.

Michael's strong feelings for the Jewish community meant he was even prepared to suffer professionally for his love of Israel and the Jewish people. It is well-known that in 1993 Michael went to Israel on his Dangerous Tour where he performed for 160,000 fans in Tel Aviv. My dear friend Frank Cascio, later to become Michael's manager, accompanied him and he told me how much Michael loved being in the holy land. Less well known, however, is the following story.

In late 2000, a Jewish philanthropist called me and told me that Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was coming to his home that night for a reception. He said it would be good for Israel if Michael would come there and meet with the prime minister. I turned to Michael, in the presence of some of his professional staff, and asked him if he would like to meet the Israeli prime minister. Michael immediately jumped at the opportunity and told me he would love to do so. However, the people who surrounded him at the time mentioned that it might not be a good idea. They said that Sharon was hated in many parts of world, especially in Arab nations. A photograph of Michael with Ariel Sharon could spark a significant backlash including a boycott of Michael's albums and music. Michael immediately dismissed their concerns and said that he felt very excited to meet the prime minister. A few minutes later we embarked in Michael's van and crossed town to the meeting. The pictures of Michael greeting Prime Minister Sharon, along with me and our dear mutual friend Uri Geller, appeared throughout the world. Michael's professional staff were correct. The very next day websites called for a boycott of Michael's music saying that he supported Israel's "hated" leader. However, Michael did not care. Michael loved Israel and the Jewish people and he was thrilled to meet someone of Prime Minister Sharon's stature.

Above everything else in our relationship, Michael was immensely sensitive to my family's Jewish observance and did everything to respect it at all times. When we would visit him at his homes and hotel suites, he would always order kosher food from local restaurants for us. He developed a taste for the cuisine of some well-known kosher restaurants and would often go there on his own after getting to know the restaurant through me.

The speech I composed for him, based on our conversations, that was delivered at the Oxford Union in March, 2001 -- one of his crowning achievements where he received a standing ovation and which, unfortunately, has yet to be released by his estate -- was filled with Jewish references and wisdom. Michael told me to leave it all in. As a Jehovah's Witness he felt an immediate kinship and bond with the Jewish people and their teachings.

Michael was an African-American male who told me that he and his family had experienced a great deal of discrimination in their lives. Surely it is adding insult to injury to accuse Michael of a racism that was never expressed through his actions and never felt in his heart

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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty18th October 2013, 6:18 pm

posted by Elke Hassell on Friday, June 8th 2012

Daily Mail tries to de-throne Michael Jackson as black community realises what the media was really trying to do to him

Voices For Michael - Page 3 King-of-pop

Remember the first version of “Candle in the Wind” where Elton John sang “even when you died, the press still hounded you”?
This is what I think of when I see the media is launching into the latest stream of Michael Jackson stories.
Michael Jackson, you poor man, three years after you died the press just can’t stop speaking about you. And worst, can’t stop tarnishing his memory, ruin his image and now he’s not here to defend himself who can? Those who try (*cough*Jermaine*cough*) fail miserably.
Hopefully his daughter Paris will do well on her interview with Oprah Winfrey and restore some of the damage that has been done.
Sadly, though, the Daily Mail has already been using the interview she has given for their latest “belittle Michael Jackson’s legacy” campaign. What is their angle? You ask. Well, it’s stealing his title “King of Pop”. Yep, for their last few articles they keep perpetually referring to the KING of pop as “Prince of pop”. What’s that now? 30 years and hundreds of articles and you certainly forget what he’s called? If you think this is just a mistake, or a mix up because of his two sons names (Prince 1 and 2) you are sadly mistaken.
This is part of a continuing pattern that most of the media has been following for the last 20 or so years, erase his records from history.
Think about it for many year it was common knowledge that Michael had smashed the records of the Beatles and Elvis et al, now it’s being reported that this has never happened and the Beatles and Elvis Presley still own this record and that Adele is beating his other records.
(On a side note: Whitney Houston’s records are rapidly becoming absent too.) Interestingly, unlike the time when Thriller was released we don’t get to see the official figures: it’s just mentioned as a fact in the papers and people believe it.
Meanwhile Elvis is still being referred to as “the King” in the Daily Mail, who in a recent article on the Lisa Marie letter story made their bias abundantly clear when referring to Michael as the “Prince” and Presley as the “King”.
It seems they are getting more and more hardlined in their racism that has been alleged for years. Besides Michael some of their recent victims are will.i.am, who was singled out for horrific criticism during The Voice, Lenny Henry and naturally Barrack Obama. Sadly this paper is one of the biggest papers in the UK, together with The Sun who is mostly the same but in a bite sized way.

This week Thy Black Man wrote an interesting column about black celebrities and the media with intriguing comments on Michael Jackson.
Some quotes here: “Michael Jackson, as difficult as it may be to believe, was a very proud black man. He was one of the most talented musicians and entertainers of all time; yet, he came across in mainstream media as a space cadet peculiarly obsessed with animals and children, and just someone totally *****. Although one cannot argue that Michael Jackson was in a league of his own—which made him unique, appealing, and even more insatiable by popular opinion, was he as “weird” or out of touch as the media made him out to be? Did the music industry have ulterior motives to smear and discredit him, and if so, how far were they willing to go to destroy the image of a black man who shattered the records of icons Elvis Presley and the Beatles? Was race a factor in MTV’s initial refusal to promote any of Michael’s music? And once they were finally strong-armed into airing the tunes by the powerful CBS, did CBS strike a deal with MTV that required Michael to “sell out” in some way in order for his dreams to be realized? (…)
Was he too brilliant and talented for his own good, and the only way for the systemic to attempt to “keep him in his place” was by smearing and discrediting him as a person? Michael Jackson lived life through his music; he used his music as a form of communication to his fans and to express his truest feelings. (…) The messages emulating from his music exemplify a brilliant mind and someone far from being crazy.”
Read the full article here

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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty18th October 2013, 6:25 pm

posted by ElkeHassell on Monday, June 11th 2012

Daily Mail stops silly Michael Jackson smear, but did Google and YouTube tamper with his statistics?

Voices For Michael - Page 3 Michael

As of last Friday the Daily Mail has started addressing Michael Jackson with “King of Pop” again, after thousands of fans complained about the bizarre “Prince of Pop” tag the tabloid started using for the last two weeks.
An important victory for Michael’s fans after tabloids have been on a continuous attack on Michael’s memory in the last few months and it doesn’t look as if it’s over yet.

An interesting fact was brought to my attention by Elke Hassell, a great fan of Michael after my last article on him:

[b]“I am just so sick and tired, angry and mad, about those sick British papers owned by this Murderous Murdoch. I cannot comprehend that anybody would support such a sham of tabloid crap, I cannot understand that in 2012 after all that has been done and said about Michael Jackson, the stories still continue and hardly anybody is lifting an eyebrow. Are people really that blind to see that it was always about RACE here. The undermining of great Black People, especially when it comes to Michael Jackson. I don’t even trust the Record Keeping they did for him, I am sure the true figures will blow all the King Elvises and Beatles and almost everybody else out of the world. Michael Jackson ruled Utube – Google – and yet they deliberately erased all of his most viewed videos after 25th June 2009 which were well in the Billion Number and started back with him at zero in order to announce Lady Gaga and Justin Bieber (notice both white) the most viewed celebs that reached 1 Billion views, leaving Michael Jackson as third. Is this justice is this fair, nobody is doing anything about it. You put in Michael Jackson in any Search Engine, Utube for instance it brings up over 5 Million hits – the most on Utube ever and you tell me he did not have 1 Billion views before the two others did. I am tired of this, We as his fans are battling out what seems a never ending fight for the TRUTH! But it takes so many years, if at all, for people to listen to the TRUTH when it comes to Michael J. Jackson. THE GENIUS”[/b]

Now does this really surprise us? Trying to belittle Michael Jackson now is the last chance at erasing another part of history that is not to the liking to those at the top. If you don’t like it get rid of it by taking it out of history or change facts: slavery, the Holocaust, the homosexuality of historical figures, the fact that famous inventions were made by people of colour, what really happened to the Jewish people after the second world war, the way people that were non caucasian or non straights were tortured and lynched in several countries and states long into the 60’s. These facts are slowly fading from our history books, made into footnotes and could be deleted within two generations. History has always been altered to fit round what people WANT you to know not to show the true facts of the history of the world. Sadly not many know this. I’m planning to get back to this topic at a later time. Meanwhile, some of the effects of deleting facts from history can be found here

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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty18th October 2013, 6:28 pm

posted by Nimue on Monday, June 11th 2012

Wow.. our friend Elke is getting on the news, By the way I loved the new name you gave to Murdoch..

I am proud of you dear friend. I am proud how you fight for Michael and his name.

Isn't this one that blog that you post a comment, fighting the haters comments and Wolfie and Fairy also?


The video was missing in your post:

Reading the link there now:
Was Beethoven Black? Was His African Heritage Whitewashed?

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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty18th October 2013, 6:31 pm

posted by Nimue on Monday, June 11th 2012

Michael Jackson - The Stories you didn't hear

Monday, 11 June, 2012 - 12:51

Voices For Michael - Page 3 MJACK

On the Big Bang Theory, Sheldon and Amy Farrah Fowler tested Meme Theory to see what type of gossip is more likely to travel through a social circle. Said Amy to Penny, “Sheldon and I engaged in sexual intercourse, in other news, I'm thinking of planting a herb garden.” The news about her herb garden was never repeated once while the comment about her sex life spread within seconds. I think this is pretty much what happened to Michael Jackson. More or less. The weird, outrageous and sexual comments about him spread further and lasted longer than anything good and boring he ever did. So let’s take a second to talk about his “herb garden.”

In 1993 Oprah Winfrey went to Neverland to interview Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson was so popular that 90 million people around the world tuned in to watch that live interview, which set a world record in television history. But what of it, to the King of Pop, who could break records without breaking a sweat. The interview was monumental because Michael had not given one in 14 years. Quite different from the celebs of today, who Twitter and Facebook the mundane details of their lives constantly for attention. So, at the peak of his popularity he was also deliciously mysterious. Oprah of course dove in and asked him about all the juicy rumours that people think are important. Skin colour, plastic surgery, sexuality. Then true to form, because there was nothing else titillating to talk about, his charity work was touched on at the end of the interview. And we learned a very special thing about Neverland.

Did you know that Neverland had a theatre with special private rooms built into the large back wall, equipped with professional hospital beds, so that sick and dying children who were bedridden could watch magic shows and movie marathons, with other cancer patients, who were well enough to sit in the seats below? Of course, all necessarily accompanied by parents, doctors and nurses. This struck a chord with me as I realized, this was the side of Michael Jackson that people didn’t talk about so much. So I looked up his humanitarian side and was blown away by a 24 page document detailing his mind blowing charity contributions.

To list just a few details. Michael:

Equipped a 19 bed unit for leukaemia and cancer research.
Donated ALL the money he received from his Pepsi commercial to the Michael Jackson Burn Centre for children.
During his Bad World Tour, he spent time with children backstage who came in on hospital beds and were so sick they could barely hold their heads up. He knelt down for a photo with all of them.
Royalties from the “Man in the Mirror” single were donated to Camp Ronald McDonald for Good Times, a camp for children with cancer.
The recording of “We are the World” resulted in over $60 million dollars being channelled directly into famine relief around the world.
The song “Beat It” was donated for use in anti-drink driving campaigns.
1995 - he actually donated significantly to the Jane Goodall Ape Research Institute.
1996 - Micheal contributed approximately 85% of earnings from the Indian leg of his HIStory World Tour to help create jobs for 270,000 Hindi young people. In the same year he also donated $100,000 to an orphanage in Bangkok he visited, as well as personally distributed toys and gifts at the orphanage and also a school for the blind.
Donated $1.1 million in 1997 to a charity in India that helps educate children in the slums.
In 2000, Michael Jackson was listed in the Guiness Book Of World Records for the "Most Charities Supported By a Pop Star".
Hosted 200 Air Force families at Neverland in 2002.
In 2004 he received a Humanitarian Award from The African Ambassadors’ Spouses Association (AASA) for his international efforts, but especially for his work in Africa, where he supported programs to build and equip hospitals, orphanages, homes and schools, in addition to financially supporting Child immunization, programs for HIV-AIDS, education and apartheid.
As an endorser of the Make-A-Wish Foundation as a donor and Wish granter Michael always gave ill and underprivileged children free tickets to his concerts.

In many cases, the children Michael Jackson helped were ecstatic to meet him. But in other parts of the globe, the slums, the orphanages, the children had no idea he was a world famous pop star. They just thought he was a nice person who brought hope.

I think it is rare to find someone who personally gives so much personal time and energy, in addition to financial support, to help others. The media is more interested in sharing how people selfishly, excessively, materialistically use their wealth (think Kardashians and all other stupid crap on the E! Channel) as this increases consumption, as opposed to promoting charity.

When Oprah asked Michael Jackson in 1993 what he felt was his life’s purpose, one of the things he said was “I feel I was chosen as an instrument to give music and love and harmony to the world." Maybe he was “chosen” to have such a phenomenal musical talent because his good heart could possibly help teach us something... I hope that people will remember his actual contributions instead of the drama and bull***** and know that, unlike so many other self-absorbed celebrities today, he actually did the best that he could to try and heal the world.

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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty18th October 2013, 6:34 pm

posted by The Fairy on Wednesday, June 13th 2012

Quote :
Quote from Nimue on Monday, June 11th 2012 @ 11:33 AM

I am proud of you dear friend. I am proud how you fight for Michael and his name.
I can only join Nimue in her praise of you Elke. Well done. See it does help to fight for his name... it does get noticed..

Quote :
Quote from Nimue on Monday, June 11th 2012 @ 11:33 AM

Isn't this one that blog that you post a comment, fighting the haters comments and Wolfie and Fairy also?
No that is Jasper site.. and they got all quiet.. guess it was hard to deal with the Elke/Wolfie/Fairy trio. Like Wolfie said to me, it is important that we as admins back up our members so they dont stand alone on a site defending Michael. It is likewise important that we as admins keep the tone very nice.. its possible to Fairyslap and Wolfslap in a nice manner... because we represent the Flying Fairies and are proud to do so.

A lot of my YT subscribers express their fear of the bad guys and so on and I always tell them to convert the fear into anger and action. Whenever I see that I get very pleased and I see it increasingly. Way to go Elke!
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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty19th October 2013, 9:05 am

posted by Nimue on Sunday, July 1st 2012

On July, 1st 2011 the Italian journalist Federico Rampini, who is the foreign correspondent in the USA for the second most important Italian daily newspaper "La Repubblica", slandered Michael Jackson on his blog, insinuating that he was a pedophile miraculously saved by overpaid attorneys. Like many Michael Jackson's connoisseurs, we tried to contact him providing all the official sources to show him how inappropriate and shameful his words are. He never replied. The week-end 15-17 June there was a festival of that newspaper in Bologna. We couldn't miss the opportunity to confront him about his deplorable behavior. There were many people and professional cameras to record the event, also aired on their channel tv. Watch the video to hear what he said in answer to our blame.
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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty19th October 2013, 9:10 am

posted by Nimue on Thursday, July 12th 2012

Not sure I got half of the tweet:

PRESS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: July 12, 2012 CONTACT: William Wagener Documentary on the 2005 (cont) http://tl.gd/ia25gd

The link is not working for me.

His site has changed a lot

Voices For Michael - Page 3 Wagene10

I just don't like the tracking of our location.
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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty19th October 2013, 9:12 am

posted by Nimue on Thursday, July 12th 2012

Ok. I got the link. The tweet if from today but it seems to be old news:


CONTACT: William Wagener

Documentary on the 2005 Michael Jackson Trial
A new documentary about the 2005 child molestation trial of The King of Pop, Michael Jackson, is slated to begin production sometime before the end of this year.

Producer William Wagener announces that award-winning documentary filmmaker Bill Still, has been selected to direct the upcoming documentary film about the 2005 trial of legendary entertainer, Michael Jackson, & letter of intent signed July 12, 2012 by both.

Jackson was acquitted of all 14 charges of pedophilia against him in June of 2005. Wagener says that the documentary will depict “word-for-word actual courtroom testimony” to finally clear Jackson’s name because the public perception persists that Jackson was actually guilty. The film will show that significant “evidence” produced by the prosecution in that trial was fabricated. The film will also show how the mainstream media spun away from truth and produced instead a sordid web of distortion to purposely make the beloved entertainer look guilty in the court of public opinion.
Bill Still and William Wagener predict that the film will be a blockbuster when it is released sometime in 2013 fueled by massive international Jackson fan-club interest.
The trial was the climax of a darkened period for the pop icon, as unsubstantiated pedophiliac rumors circled around Jackson for nearly a decade. In 1993, a 13-year-old boy, accused Jackson of molesting him, even though the claim turned out to be nothing more than a mere extortion plot, orchestrated by the boy’s then father, Evan Chandler and his attorney Barry Rothman. Although Jackson wanted to fight the accusations tooth and nail, he was unwisely advised by those around him to settle the case out of court. The Chandler Family and their attorney were paid a $22 million dollar settlement, by Jackson’s insurance company and not by Jackson himself, although many people still falsely believe the contrary.
Ten years later, more accusations surfaced in 2003, when another 13-year-old boy falsely accused, Jackson of molesting him while the youngster was convalescing from terminal cancer at the singer’s famed Neverland Ranch. More rumors spread after the boy appeared (looking healthy) with the star on the show “Living With Michael Jackson”, a two-hour interview by famed British journalist Martin Bashir. Thanks to embarrassing statements that the boy had made about sleeping in the superstar’s bedroom more rumors sparked. As a result the boy’s mother, Janet Arviso, just like Evan Chandler before her, orchestrated her own attempted payoff, under the guise of molestation accusations, this time with backing of then Santa Barbara County’s District Attorney Tom Sneddon behind her. (Arviso would later be found guilty at her own trial for welfare fraud.)
Instead of settling for a second time, Jackson demanded his day in court. The trial lasted for five months, from February to June of 2003. Since it was a trial involving a charge of child sexual abuse, the judge presiding over the case Judge Rodney Melville declared a “media blackout”, by not allowing recording equipment of any kind in the courtroom. Reporters had to either relay their information via the Internet or by phone, which basically allowed them to omit and edit the truth wherever they saw fit.

Wagener sat in on the trial as a member of the press core for his show “On Second Thought”. The veteran reporter who never missed a day in court, was amazed at how the local and national news organizations only reported bits and pieces of one-sided information of the trial mainly from the prosecution, while little to no information was ever reported from the defense. It is through the documentary that both Wagener and Still hope to rectify this.

Jackson’s brilliant defense attorney, Tom Mesereau destroyed all the prosecution witnesses’ lewd testimony on cross examination and nearly exposed the fact that the physical evidence was basically all fabricated -- possibly by Sneddon himself and his legal team. Despite the media’s unfairness, Wagener was the only reporter to say publicly on his show that Jackson was going to be acquitted on all 14 charges and that he would leave the courtroom a free man. The reporter was proven right on June 13, 2005.

Bill Still is the director, narrator, and producer of the documentaries The Money Masters and The Secret of Oz, which are critiques of the United States’ monetary system. The Secret of Oz won the Best Documentary Award at the 2010 Beloit International Film Festival. Still was featured in a segment which aired in Feb. 2012 on the History Channel’s America’s Book of Secrets discussing the Fort Knox Gold Scandal. He also sought the Libertarian Party’s nomination during the 2012 U.S. Presidential Election, but was defeated by Gary Johnson at the Libertarian National Convention.
Although he triumphed victoriously after the trial, Jackson’s life and career were never the same. An exceptional entertainer, he nearly gave up performing all together, and lived a nomadic existence with his three small children at the time Prince Michael, Paris Katherine, and Prince Michael II a.k.a. “Blanket”. The foursome lived in a variety of places around the globe including Las Vegas, Ireland, and even Bahrain.

In March of 2009, Jackson announced that he was going to perform for the final time in the UK. Called “This Is It”, the 50 show residency at London’s O2 Arena were supposed to be his “final curtain call” before retiring, completing an astounding almost 50 year entertaining career. However, it was not meant to be. Mounting pressures from the show, as well as the post-traumatic stress brought on from the trial, forced Jackson to seek out extreme measures to get the required sleep that he so needed in order to perform. Jackson began using the powerful anesthetic Propofal to help him sleep with the aid of a west coast based cardiologist by the name of Dr. Conrad Murray. An accident ensued with the drug and the legendary pop singer died on June 25, 2009, 12 days after the fourth year anniversary of his acquittal. He would’ve turned 51 two months later on August 29th. It was the tragic end, to the extraordinary life of one of the most fascinating, controversial and above all most beloved entertainers of all time.

Wagener and Still hope that both Michael Jackson’s fans as well as anyone who is a fan of the truth will be supportive of the project and will help donate a minimum of $3 million to produce the documentary debt free so it can earn enough money to help the children of the world via the MJJ Innocent Forever Foundation as well as various other children’s charities that were close to Jackson’s heart, including the proposed children’s hospital in his name which was said by his fans to be his “last wish” which came out during Dr. Murray’s 2011 trial. (Dr. Murray was convicted and sentence to four years in prison for administering the fatal drug that took Jackson’s life.)

Casting for the production is slated for a later date. All questions, comments, or concerns about the project can be forwarded to Mr. Wagener.

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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty19th October 2013, 9:14 am

posted by Nimue on Thursday, July 12th 2012

About Bill Still and The Secret of Oz:

What's going on with the world's economy? Foreclosures are everywhere, unemployment is skyrocketing - and this may only be the beginning. Could it be that solutions to the world's economic problems could have been embedded in the most beloved children's story of all time, "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz"? The yellow brick road (the gold standard), the emerald city of Oz (greenback money), even Dorothy's silver slippers (changed to ruby slippers for the movie version) were powerful symbols of author L. Frank Baum's belief that the people - not the big banks -- should control the quantity of a nation's money. Written by Bill Still


The vdeo:

1 h and 50 min long

Just a note: I didn't find any record on Bill Sitill file on IMDB about any MJ documentary.

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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty19th October 2013, 9:16 am

posted by Nimue on Sunday, July 29th 2012

Support of Affidavit Concerning Criminal Conduct of Tom Sneddon - 2005 Michael Jackson Trial

Target: Santa Barbara County of California Supervisors
Sponsored by: MichaelJackson SimForum

This petition serves to express our concern and belief that former District Attorney Thomas Sneddon committed at least three felonies against Mr. Michael Jackson during the 2005 trial of charges for child molestation.

On August 14, 2012, Mr. William Wagener will present to the County Supervisors of Santa Barbara an affidavit of criminal conduct committed by Mr. Thomas Sneddon during the 2005 trial of Mr. Michael Jackson. We support the effort to have a full investigation into the matter carried out by an independent special prosecutor; someone outside of Santa Barbara County.

We are outraged at the egregious misuse of power during the 2005 trial of Mr. Jackson. It is frightening to think that, in someone’s zeal to get a conviction, felonies can be committed by those sworn to uphold the law and seek truth.

We are concerned about the message this sends to future prosecutors who may be tempted to go beyond the boundaries of the law in order to fulfill personal agendas. Our court system is not a weapon to be used to satisfy personal vendettas or to gain personal notoriety, social status, or political power.

We ask that there be a full independent investigation into the claims made in Mr. Wagener’s affidavit of criminal conduct. Please hold those in power responsible for their crimes, and let full justice be extended to Michael Jackson, as well as others who have been or may in the future be victims of over zealous prosecutors

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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty19th October 2013, 9:17 am

posted by Nimue on Wednesday, August 1st 2012


Radio Interview with William Wagener


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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty19th October 2013, 9:20 am

posted by ElkeHassell on Monday, August 13th 2012

Affidavit Concerning Criminal Conduct - 2005 Michael Jackson Trial

Well you probably know about William Wagener's mission about the above

Support of Affidavit Concerning Criminal Conduct of Tom Sneddon - 2005 Michael Jackson Trial
Voices For Michael - Page 3 662053-1343292849-main

This petition serves to express our concern and belief that former District Attorney Thomas Sneddon committed at least three felonies against Mr. Michael Jackson during the 2005 trial of charges for child molestation.

On August 14, 2012, Mr. William Wagener will present to the County Supervisors of Santa Barbara an affidavit of criminal conduct committed by Mr. Thomas Sneddon during the 2005 trial of Mr. Michael Jackson. We support the effort to have a full investigation into the matter carried out by an independent special prosecutor; someone outside of Santa Barbara County.

We are outraged at the egregious misuse of power during the 2005 trial of Mr. Jackson. It is frightening to think that, in someone’s zeal to get a conviction, felonies can be committed by those sworn to uphold the law and seek truth.

We are concerned about the message this sends to future prosecutors who may be tempted to go beyond the boundaries of the law in order to fulfill personal agendas. Our court system is not a weapon to be used to satisfy personal vendettas or to gain personal notoriety, social status, or political power.

We ask that there be a full independent investigation into the claims made in Mr. Wagener’s affidavit of criminal conduct. Please hold those in power responsible for their crimes, and let full justice be extended to Michael Jackson, as well as others who have been or may in the future be victims of over zealous prosecutors.

Follow UP

Santa Barbara County Betteravia Government Center
511 E Lakeside Parkway, Santa Maria, California

On August 14, 2012, Mr. William Wagener will present to the County Supervisors of Santa Barbara an affidavit of criminal conduct committed by Mr. Thomas Sneddon during the 2005 trial of Mr. Michael Jackson.
We, the people, strongly urge the Santa Barbara Board of Supervisors to appoint an independent special prosecutor outside of Santa Barbara County to investigate three felony crimes that were committed by Tom Sneddon and the other three prosecutors during the 2004 investigation and the 2005 trial of Michael Jackson.

These three indictable felonies include, but are not limited to, the following:

1. Manufacturing false finger prints
2. Manufacturing false phone conspiracy evidence
3. Conspiracy amongst the prosecutors to do the first two felonies listed above

No man is above the law, and we realize the Statute of Limitations will begin to click away as soon as the Affidavit is submitted to the Board of Supervisors, hence, it is of utmost importance that you act, not only responsibly, but also expeditiously, to bring justice to a situation that is long overdue.
Letter from Larry Nimmer, which I personally think is absolutely useless in his wording and facts.
There will be a public comment protest against Thomas Sneddon at tomorrow's Santa Barbara County Supervisor's meeting in Santa Maria at 9am. I'm under the weather with Bronchitis, so, I've asked that the following letter from me be read at the meeting.

"I, Larry Nimmer, worked for Michael Jackson during his 2005 trial here in Santa Maria. After learning from insiders about how Michael had been relentlessly persecuted by Tom Sneddon, I have come to believe that a great injustice was done to him. Michael Jackson was one of history's greatest supporters of children's rights and showed them unparalleled respect and understanding. It broke his spirit to be unjustly accused of the opposite.

Maybe initially, Tom Sneddon good intentions. However, he was confused by the unorthodox and unprecedented nature of one of history's biggest philanthropic superstars. Due to a type of cultural and social bias, Mr. Sneddon could not believe that there could be such a well intentioned adult, but "childlike", superstar. Instead, he wanted to believe the words of people who were proven scammers and who were intent to make money off of Michael, like people before them and, after them. Sneddon lost sight of the law and the ability to believe in goodness and viciously pursued Michael Jackson, resembling the evil police inspector "Javert".... in Victor Hugo's "Les Miserables".

I believe, like many others, that this unjust persecution of Michael Jackson lead to his medical problems and finally, to his death. Santa Barbara County should do something to right this wrong.

Sincerely yours,
Larry Nimmer
Film Producer "The Untold Story of Neverland".

A lot of people thought that Tom Messereau is involved with this but he is not and sends this reply to one of the Groups.
Darlene Walker
Robyn Starkand
***** I emailed Tom Mesereau about his support of William Wagner... as I have seen many posts and websites saying he was ... I have gotten an answer back and also have gotten his permission to post this on facebook:

From Tom Mesereau
Dear Robyn:

Thank you for your e-mail.

I am not involved in any of Mr. Wagner’s ventures. I cannot comment on whether any of these projects are viable because I am not involved.

I have spoken at a couple of Mr. Wagner’s events because I support efforts to clear Michael Jackson’s name and reputation. However, I am not involved in any of Mr. Wagner’s money-making efforts. Nor have I asked for, or received, any monetary benefit.

Michael Jackson fans should not assume that I am involved in these projects. They can assume, obviously, that I support legitimate efforts to speak on Michael’s behalf. As you know, I fervently believe that Michael Jackson was innocent of all criminal charges. You also know that I consider him to have been one of the kindest and nicest people I ever met. His creative genius and humanitarian efforts changed the world.

Thank you for your concern.


Tom Mesereau

So I don't know, if this is being posted somewhere else, but I thought I put it here. If its already been posted let me know and I will erase it.

Admin's comment: No this particular article hasnt been posted. Im moving it to this thread, where we are talking about Wagener's project: The M.J.J. Innocent Forever Foundation
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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty19th October 2013, 9:22 am

posted by Nimue on Wednesday, August 15th 2012

This is the video of William Waneger presenting the case:

Some fans are really upset with Wanager and Taaj that talked most about themself during their 2 minutes time than the issue itself.

An example:

Only seconds into the video and you don’t know whether to laugh or cry because evidently somebody traveled 400miles to be at court.

I mean were these people not informed ahead of time that the statute of limitations to indict and prosecute Sneddon has come and gone? And out of decency and respect for the people you’re addressing and requesting assistance from take your fucking hats off when you’re in a government building.

William Wagener approaches the podium with his documents in a BROWN, PAPER, SHOPPING BAG!

Each speaker is allotted TWO minutes to get their point across and sadly, William Wagner took up his entire two minutes bragging about himself and boasting about getting to be in attendance almost every day in the 2005 Michael Jackson trial. Just as he was getting to the supposed real purpose of him being there, his time ran out…Justice for Michael-0…Sneddon-1.

WTF was the point of the ***** that the ‘broken heart stone’ dude said?

Another unidentified chick come to the podium and I cannot believe she actually started talking about SEMEN. So fucking random and out of place!

God bless Daniel Jackson. He tried, but sadly, he seemed to have miss the memo that the idea was to put Sneddon on trial…not rehash Michael’s 2005 trial and try to prove his innocence all over again.

Taaj Malik arrived at the podium crying and blubbering. Evidently nobody has informed her that she’s STILL wearing her arm band on the wrong arm.


Wow.. some fans are really upset the way it was handled....

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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty19th October 2013, 9:26 am

posted by Nimue on Wednesday, August 15th 2012

Comments on twitter:

Wagener. I see he gave up "indict Sneddon for malicious prosecution" as he didn't have the legal standing &statue of limitation was over

Wagener is now pursuing fraud but is again wrong as statue of limitations start at the "date of discovery".

sneddon's attempts (such as fingerprints) are long discovered and mentioned by Thomas Mesereau and Susan Yu. It's not a new discovery

I have seen some even mention "fraud upon court" which doesn't have statue of limitations but if successful voids any and all court rulings.

what's the goal here seriously? Overturn Michael's NOT GUILTY verdict? Anyway that being said I don't think anyone would take this seriously

fraud upon court means court couldn't be impartial in decision making due to the fraud involved & it voids orders and judgements

"7th Circuit stated "a decision produced by fraud upon the court is not in essence a decision at all, and never becomes final."

Also note to Wagener, Sneddon has been suspended / not eligible to practice law for over a year because he has long retired.

So any suspension or disbarment etc would have absolutely no effect on Sneddon who is blissfully retired and left legal practice.

MJJJusticeProject opinion about William Wagener

RT RT Let’s discuss this whole William Wagener affidavit to the court in the most calm way possible. We encourage discussion because it’s the only way to get to the essence of any issue in the MJGlobal community.

First let’s state some obvious points –

Every Michael Jackson fan KNOWS that Tom Sneddon was out to get him and was maliciously using every power vested in him and by any means to convict Michael: legal and otherwise.

Every Michael Jackson fan would love the idea of Sneddon having to pay for his obvious evidence tampering during the 2005 trial.

Every Michael Jackson fan would love to see a fact filled documentary produced that clearly demonstrates that Michael was maliciously prosecuted by Sneddon.

But every Michael Jackson fan needs to understand the ramifications of following a path where the outcome may be contrary to the goal of bring Justice to Michael.

Next- Malicious Prosecution

After trial Tom Mesereau said that in his estimation, Michael had grounds to bring a case of malicious prosecution against Sneddon. Michael was emotionally spent after sitting in the court room listening to lies against him for 5 months, and was in no position to bring such a case.

This type of case cannot be brought by anyone else except the person it was perpetrated against. Since ONLY Michael could bring such a case and the statutes of limitations have run out this is a moot point.

Next- Fraud Upon the Court

Now William Wagener files a affidavit for “fraud upon the court” which has no statute of limitation.

By definition is something that the officer of the law (lawyers , judge) etc does that causes the court not to be impartial and in effect causes them not to do their legal duty.

"7th Circuit states "a decision produced by fraud upon the court is not in essence a decision at all, and never becomes final."

Michael was found Not Guilty, despite the actions of Sneddon and the
let’s ponder on the ramifications of having William Wageners affidavit accepted and the verdict voided.

Is that what MJ fans want?

Do we want the Not Guilty verdicts voided? We think not.

So if a fraud upon court is proven all of the orders and judgments are voided
and this voids the verdict - How would this affect Sneddon?

If the Board of Supervisor’s did open an investigation and found that Sneddon did participate in “fraud upon the court” what will happen to Sneddon?


The most they can do is suspend his license to practice law or disbar him- but as we all know Sneddon is retired and blissfully pulling in a government pension.

So it’s a lose, lose proposition and this Affidavit of William Wageners should NEVER have been put to the Board of Supervisor’s of Santa Maria County, NOR should ANY of Michael Jacksons fans supported this ill-thought out presentation and cause.

William Wageners Documentary

Do we think a documentary should be made regarding the malicious prosecution of Michael Jackson that will highlight the evidence tampering done by Tom Sneddon ?


We can support that endeavor and just like Tom Mesereau made it clear in his letter that he supports such efforts that show Michael was totally innocent.

We have never thwarted the efforts of Willaim Wagener, we simply ask people to understand the issues.

Funding for such an endeavor is not financially viable even though Michael has over 50Million fans all over the world.


Over half of Michael’s fans live in third world or impoverished nations and don’t have the means to make their own ends meet much less finance this documentary.

Additionally, due to the worldwide economic crisis, the rest of Michael’s fanbase may struggle even if living in developed nations.

Therefore, Michael’s fanbase,, while filled with much honor and love for Michael, can not sustain the financial burden of this documentary alone.

William Wagener must find some Angel Investors for financing and his advocates need to stop attempting to make Michael’s fans feel guilty when they can not carry this financial burden.

To goad someone into sending money by using terminology that they are not “genuine” “true” or “real” fans is disingenuous and is emotional blackmail of a sort.

Every fan of Michael Jackson would love to see this documentary completed, but don’t try to make them feel less than real fans because monetarily they can not see it to its fruition.

Michael Jackson never once asked his fans for monetary support .. in fact HE was the one to GIVE –

All we ask from the MJGlobal family is to ask questions before you support a cause, understand the implications and ramifications of supporting it before you do.

Emotions can make you jump into a cause that has Michael Jackson’s name on it- before you research – even MJJJP signed the Wagener petition on emotion before we looked deeper into the issue.

We are all human and make mistakes- but as long as we learn from them they become lessons

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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty19th October 2013, 9:28 am

posted by Nimue on Saturday, August 18th 2012 @

The discussion between MJ fans.

Re: Fraud upon court, Sneddon, Wagener

Every single MJ fan would like to see Sneddon pay for what he did to Michael but at the same time I believe we stand to benefit a lot from being realistic.

Soon after Michael’s death Wagener was promising that Sneddon can be indicted for “malicious prosecution” however this was wrong as “malicious prosecution” could have been only brought by Michael and only within a certain time period. When corrected by the fans, Wagener (or most probably his supporters) came up with “fraud” or “fraud upon the court” claims. Fraud claim is also limited to certain time period from “discovery date” which is also passed because the knowledge about what Sneddon did is not new; we knew it since 2005 when T-Mez actually mentioned the fingerprints and such.

That leaves us with “fraud upon the court” which looks really nice on the paper with no statute of limitations and serious consequences that could include fine and perhaps even jail time in addition to firing and disbarment. However it’s not correctly understood (probably due to the fact that it’s highly specialized and quite rare).

Read the definition please

“Fraud upon the court is fraud which is directed to the judicial machinery itself and is not fraud between the parties or fraudulent documents, false statements or perjury. ... It is where the court or a member is corrupted or influenced or influence is attempted or where the judge has not performed his judicial function --- thus where the impartial functions of the court have been directly corrupted.”

Now read it again.

Fraud upon the court is NOT – again NOT – fraudulent documents or false statements. So from this definition you see that false fingerprints are not fraud upon the court.

Fraud upon the court is when the court cannot be impartial.

Here comes the MOST important question: How can you argue the court could not perform its impartial functions, when the verdict was “not guilty”?

The answer is simple: You can’t. Your basic common sense and logic should tell you that you can’t really argue that the court was corrupted and could not perform its impartial functions when the verdict was “not guilty” and indeed an innocent man was found innocent because the court was able to do its job.

That’s why the online lawyers Mary Brookins contacted told you that a “not guilty” verdict will hold because there is no basis for a fraud upon the court claim in this scenario.

What the people said about the fraud upon the court principles and how the judgment would be voided was also true and all you need is again your common sense and basic logic to realize that this is the truth. If the court is corrupted to the point of not being able to be impartial, that would void any and all decisions of that court as everyone is entitled to a fair trial. This is clear in the legal wording as well which says “"Fraud upon the court" makes void the orders and judgments of that court. Under Federal law, when any officer of the court has committed "fraud upon the court", the orders and judgment of that court are void, of no legal force or effect.”

Furthermore “fraud upon the court” can only be brought by the person who has been damaged by such fraud – which was Michael. That’s why you aren’t seeing a complaint to the court because neither Wagener nor the fans have any legal standing. Wagener only talked to County Supervisors hoping that they would start an independent investigation.

So where all of this leaves us? Nowhere to be honest. What Wagener did was to take the stand at a meeting where anyone from the public can talk and mentioned his suspicions. You are hoping that the supervisors will take it seriously and start an investigation themselves otherwise you have no legal standing to bring any complaint. You are then hoping that your claims would hold and it would uncover something and then hoping that it would result in a consequence which is more serious than firing and disbarment which has no meaning to the blissfully retired Sneddon. That’s a lot of hoping and a lot of dreaming. I’m even hearing that Wagener participating in blog talk radio saying that nothing will probably happen and/or there needs to be law changes for Sneddon to be held responsible. To me it seems like even Wagener is aware that this is just a dream. Furthermore if you have been a long time fan, active during 2005 trial and know the 16+ cases that have been filled against Sneddon when he was the DA and you would also know that nothing came out of those that would punish Sneddon for what he did. At most some lawsuits were dismissed and the verdicts were overturned but Sneddon continued to be the aggressive and corrupt prosecutor. As one of fans mentioned during their speech, it’s highly unlikely that any county supervisor would even start an investigation of Sneddon especially given the fact that you don’t have a complaining victim (Michael), the victim is dead, Sneddon is retired and it’s been over 7 years. So these are the sad but true facts.

I can understand if some have an emotional response and feel like they need to at least try this effort but they also need to understand that having a realistic approach and saying “well probably nothing will come out of this” is not being a hater or being a fake fan. Again I’m absolutely sure that every MJ fans would love – LOVE – to see Sneddon being held responsible for what he put Michael put through but if realistically this is not possible then our time is better spent on focusing on other things. Furthermore to be brutally honest, this unrealistic approach is what causes MJ fans to have a reputation of being “crazy” or “delusional”. Just the comments under the local news story include “Mad MJ fans”, “Do these people have any lives what so ever?” and “A number of people with a lack of purpose in their lives showed up”. Is that how we want to portray the MJ fan base?

Honestly sometimes I wonder how much of this attempt of trying to indict Sneddon is done for Michael and how much of it is based on Wagener’s own history with Sneddon. I believe Michael Jackson was the only person that could bring charges against Sneddon for judicial fraud, malicious prosecution and prosecutorial misconduct but he didn’t and the statue of limitations has run its course.

But that’s not the only thing, there’s Wagener’s documentary. Again we all know his position and reporting during the 2005 trial and thankful for it. So getting the story of the 2005 trial out, exposing evidence tempering, changing the public perception, expressing Michael’s innocence seems to be a far better effort for Michael’s legacy. You know, it’s possible to convict Sneddon in the court of public opinion.

I want to end this by saying that everyone is entitled to their opinion and can decide on what to support or not. My position is to be realistic and focus on stuff that I know can actually make a difference. I wish everyone all the best in what route and effort they wish to take.

PS: Please let’s all of us stop with this “hater” and “fake fan” bs, it’s called a difference of opinion and most adults can respect a person’s right to an opinion even though it’s totally opposite of their opinion.


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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty19th October 2013, 9:30 am

posted by Nimue on Tuesday, October 9th 2012

Former #MichaelJackson lawyer Tom Mesereau re William Wagener:

I am not involved in any of Mr. Wagener’s projects. I cannot comment on whether or not these projects are desirable because I am not involved.

I do not talk to Mr. Wagener on a regular basis. I am also not involved in raising money for any project.

I do support efforts to clear Michael Jackson’s name because he was innocent. For this reason, I did attend some of Mr. Wagener’s events.

Thank you for your concerns.

Best wishes,

Tom Mesereau

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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty19th October 2013, 9:32 am

posted by Nimue on Tuesday, October 23rd 2012

This is the youtube version (Man Behind the Myth)

It is up again
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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty19th October 2013, 9:41 am

posted by Nimue on Sunday, November 4th 2012

Michael Jackson’s 1993 Mexico Deposition Videos Prove His Songwriting / Music IQ Were Off The Charts

The elements of songwriting are simple to some: compose a melody, get some words together and turn it all to form. For those who are songwriters in today’s mainstream music industry, assembly line pop music doesn’t necessarily count. A majority of songwriters today write songs just to get spins on the radio; which means basic song structure consisting of easily-caught melodies and words. But then there are some songwriters who are so gifted at their craft, it’s just mind-blowing on how they come up with their particular composition in terms of structure and rhythm. Michael Jackson, the late great king of pop, was, of course, a renowned entertainer whose talent was limitless in terms of the art. But it was his knowledge of musical song structure, which further pushes his claim into the songwriting Mount Rushmore. It’s known that Jackson’s songwriting was a strong suit of his, but he never exactly went in depth into a step-by-step guide of how he takes the composition from step one to completion. At last, and ironically, amidst a deposition in Mexico which he was being questioned for a plagiarism suit, he explained in excellent detail how he composed the song “The Girl is Mine” that was featured on the Thriller album. To keep in mind, Michael Jackson didn’t physically write music, he recorded what was in his head into a tape recorder. But never mind why he was there and what exactly he composed his music on, it was his knowledge on song construction that, to me, impressed and made me cherish the gift that he had even more. He explained in the Deposition video he could compose the bass, percussion and drums all in his head. He structured the rhythm of the slow, catchy groove of The Girl is Mine; he explained how he composed the string lines of the song, he knew exactly when the bass section of the song would change into keyboard’s bass section, and he also explained that he used “musical counter lines that could go against the main part. It could be a keyboard, it could be a flute, and it could be a string part. It’s a tapestry of sound, which is what the law of music is.”

The point that he had no formal musical composition training: besides learning from his fellow Motown label mates as a member of the Jackson 5, makes his songwriting gifts a rarity. And it’s safe to assume he was only 23 at the time of the composition, which was a prelude to the strong body of work that would originate from years to come. From the self-composed numbers of “Billie Jean”, “The Way You Make Me Feel”, “Leave Me Alone”, “Heal the World”, “Stranger in Moscow”, and “Earth Song”, the musical composition talent Michael Jackson possessed is a constant reminder of the creativity that flowed through him.

While of course, no one is exactly taught to have sounds that would be in popular music, not everyone understands the magnitude and importance of each musical instrument, the melody, structure and arrangement of a song. It should make the musical mind wonder if there are any tapes of how he exactly composed his landmark songs such as “Billie Jean” and “Earth Song” and the others I named previously. Musical Geniuses may not be born, but some come with the pre-loaded craft to mold and build. Michael Jackson’s musical IQ was a rare but brilliant ability that some musicians and classically trained musicians/singers do not possess. I’ll end with a quote from Michael Jackson about letting a song create itself:

“Don’t write the song, don’t write anything. Let the song create itself. Let the strings tell you what to do and where it should come. Let the piano tell you what chords to hit. Let the bass tell you what it should be doing.”

Two of the three videos were deleted/removed. I am adding the full deposition instead

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PostSubject: Re: Voices For Michael   Voices For Michael - Page 3 Empty19th October 2013, 9:48 am

posted by Nimue on Friday, November 16th 2012

It does not belong here, but I will post here because if Wagener does not get someone else will do.

Geraldine Hughes is the author of Redemption: The Truth Behind the Michael Jackson Child Molestation Allegation (2004) book that proved Michael Jackson was NEVER a child molester.

Redemption: The Movie project is underway and key players are coming to the table for production, director, casting agent, and budget.

It's time to clear Michael Jackson's name of those horrible allegations for once and for all and protect his legacy.

It's time that the untold story regarding the extortion scheme be told. It's time for Redemption: The Movie 2013.


I didn't find anything at IMDB database
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