Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 4th October 2013, 5:37 pm
posted by GailShaw October 30th 2011
I was just going over Cherilyn Lee''s whole testimony and timeline again.....wow she was all over the place.....with her messy notes.....
After her Dizzy spell she seemed like a new person............even her notes were nicely presented in a folder,and she had the medical books there also .It was like as if she had to re read her lines... with help from the BOSS.There was something I did notice in her testimony when she came back from her dizzy spell.Here is the video.
I am not sure how to take a screen shot of the part i am talking about.
Part 17 day 2.....go to 43.10 and enlarge the screen and you get to see the PDA and Meyers cocktail books that she refers to .the PDA she mentionned a couple of times,and of course me not being medically minded had to see what it meant.....
This is the book on the bench......its PDR 59/2005.....now wouldn''t you think she would have the most up to date one?......2005???.
Of course back then she should have referred to the 2009 version........actually I thought a PDA was some sort of talking device like a small laptop....
Also another thing I noticed, as we all did ,was the reference to Red Bull.........here is one of many articles about the health issues with these energy drinks.......
Another thing with Cherilyn is she gives an insight to her health concerns at the start of this video,where she talks about nearly having her legs amputated because of the serious nature of her excema,and she was.. 7... at the time and also there were.. 7.Doctors looking after her.
I have done a lot of reading up on the death of James Brown ,which was very sudden and on Christmas Day 2006.....here is a link to a lot of information about his death............and of course we all know Michael just adored James Brown,and he was devastated when he died......
Here is a link to an article about James and Tomi Rae....down the page is a heading Son''s Paternity Test....Its heartbreaking to read......and this reminded me of Cherilyn Lees story.
Its hard to imagine Michaels grief over his mentor and friend James Brown,but to know about this would be just devastating,and also Michael only arrived back in America on Christmas Eve 2006,landing in Las Vegas.... and the next day James Brown dies....so could this also have been part of Michaels plan as James Browns death was very suspcious,and just recently there has been an investigation into what really happened to him.
Here is a link to the most recent information on James Brown
So was Cherilyn Lee's Dizzy spell part of the plan......probably......so many parrallels to 2005.... Sorry for the long post,but I just wanted to share this,and get your thoughts.
Cheers
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 4th October 2013, 5:39 pm
posted by The Fairy October 30th 2011
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Sunday, October 30th 2011 @ 1:05 AM
I have done a lot of reading up on the death of James Brown ,which was very sudden and on Christmas Day 2006.....here is a link to a lot of information about his death............and of course we all know Michael just adored James Brown,and he was devastated when he died......
The part about James Brown I have copied to the James Brown thread, so comments to this in that thread.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 4th October 2013, 5:45 pm
posted by The Fairy October 30th 2011
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Sunday, October 30th 2011 @ 1:05 AM
After her Dizzy spell she seemed like a new person............even her notes were nicely presented in a folder,and she had the medical books there also .It was like as if she had to re read her lines... with help from the BOSS.There was something I did notice in her testimony when she came back from her dizzy spell.Here is the video.
Yes she sure looked like she got some help. There are a lot of interesting things about her testimony
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Sunday, October 30th 2011 @ 1:05 AM
I am not sure how to take a screen shot of the part i am talking about.Part 17 day 2.....go to 43.10 and enlarge the screen and you get to see the PDA and Meyers cocktail books that she refers to .the PDA she mentionned a couple of times,and of course me not being medically minded had to see what it meant.....
It would be smt like this:
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Sunday, October 30th 2011 @ 1:05 AM
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Sunday, October 30th 2011 @ 1:05 AM
This is the book on the bench......its PDR 59/2005.....now wouldn''t you think she would have the most up to date one?......2005???. Of course back then she should have referred to the 2009 version........actually I thought a PDA was some sort of talking device like a small laptop....
I had the same thought when I saw her books, but didnt get around to post about it so Im glad you brought it up, Gail. This is definetely worth looking into some more... Also the whole "Red Bull" thing... I added a screenshot from the link you posted..
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Sunday, October 30th 2011 @ 1:05 AM
Also another thing I noticed, as we all did ,was the reference to Red Bull.........here is one of many articles about the health issues with these energy drinks.......
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Sunday, October 30th 2011 @ 1:05 AM
Another thing with Cherilyn is she gives an insight to her health concerns at the start of this video,where she talks about nearly having her legs amputated because of the serious nature of her excema,and she was.. 7... at the time and also there were.. 7.Doctors looking after her.
Yes... all these 7s....
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 4th October 2013, 5:51 pm
posted by The Fairy October 30th 2011
By PAUL HARASIM LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL Posted: Jul. 19, 2009 | 10:00 p.m.
The more John Thomas talked about his friend, Dr. Conrad Murray, the sadder he became.
Just three days before reports flashed around the world that the 56-year-old Las Vegas cardiologist's CPR attempts were unsuccessful in keeping Michael Jackson alive, Thomas had phoned Murray to invite him to the opening of the International MMA Fight Club gym in Las Vegas.
"He couldn't have been happier then," said Thomas, staring at the floor Wednesday in the gym on Spring Mountain Road that also serves as the Southern Nevada office of Pit Bull energy products.
"He was apologetic about not being able to come to the opening, but he said he was busy with Michael."
The Pit Bull business is what binds the two men together.
Thomas, 51, is the regional sales director for the energy drink. Murray invested with a distributorship that brought the drink to his native country of Trinidad.
Thomas said the two met about five years ago through a mutual friend, financier Fabian Vincent, during filming of a Pit Bull commercial.
In his last phone call with Murray, Thomas said last week, it was evident how much Murray "liked being in the limelight, meeting all the celebrities."
And it was clear to Thomas that the $150,000 a month Murray said he was getting from Jackson was helping him through "some of the financial troubles he talked about."
"He sounded great, really upbeat," Thomas said.
Since they last spoke, Murray has become a central figure in a police investigation into the entertainer's death. That has resulted in a media portrait of the cardiologist that Thomas doesn't recognize.
Attempts to get Murray's comments were unsuccessful.
Under the headline, "DOC LIKES TO PARTY," The Sun, a British tabloid, described Murray as a hard-drinking party animal who, when he isn't promoting Pit Bull, chases younger women.
One woman identified as a "promotions girl" said he enjoyed the models he took with him to the Caribbean: "He had a ball with them. He was up into the early hours drinking and having fun and took a particular shine to one ... at least 20 years younger than him."
"He enjoyed posing bare chested with the girls," she was quoted as saying.
On FOX News, Geraldo Rivera described Murray as cavorting with Las Vegas models he flew to Trinidad to help him promote "a very unhealthy" energy drink.
As the investigation into Jackson's death unfolds in the public eye, and Murray is more frequently mentioned in tabloids and on celebrity gossip Web sites, other people associated with him in Las Vegas are trying to square the man they knew with the profile emerging in the media.
Karen Chacon, one of the models Murray helped select for the Pit Bull promotion in Trinidad in 2005, said Murray was "very respectful of the models."
"If he had a relationship with anyone, that was up to him and the model," she said.
Chacon said while Murray drank alcohol, she never saw him get drunk.
"He knew when to stop. He was very professional."
Dr. Lydia O'Connor-Sanders, a Las Vegas family practitioner and longtime Michael Jackson fan, said her own experiences with Murray make her eager to read everything about him.
At first, she said, Murray was nice "to someone just starting out," allowing her in 2004 to set up an office in the practice he shared with another doctor on East Flamingo Road. She paid a third of the rent. Repeatedly, she said, Murray tried to get her and her daughter to buy Pit Bull.
"In a nice way," she said.
"I referred patients to him for tests. I found him very pleasant and professional."
But less than a year later, she said, Murray and his colleague gave her two weeks notice that they were moving out.
"I was left holding the bag on that space," O'Connor-Sanders said. "I had to do some begging and quick talking to the leasing manager."
It was that kind of behavior, she said, that made her think that he was capable of running away from debts.
Murray has left a trail of legal and financial troubles during his 10 years in Las Vegas.
Judgments or liens totaling about $450,000 were rendered against Murray from finance and leasing firms and for failure to pay child support and student loans.
Two pending lawsuits against him, brought by Digirad Imaging Solutions and Siemens Financial Services, are seeking judgments totalling more than $366,000.
If Murray was troubled by his legal and financial troubles, O'Connor-Sanders said she didn't see it in 2004.
"I remember how happy he was when he got a new Mercedes convertible and he drove it to the office and showed it to everyone. He got a new white lab coat from his office with his name on it so he could drive around town and show everybody that he was a doctor who made it."
When O'Connor-Sanders went to Los Angeles for a week to mourn Jackson's death, she was interviewed by a TV reporter. She wondered why the man she knew as a competent cardiologist only performed manual CPR, as has been reported in the media.
"You would have thought he would have had much more on hand for an emergency," O'Connor-Sanders said. "There are so many questions that need answering."
Val Dorsey, who runs Val's Cafe near Murray's Global Cardiovascular Associates office on East Flamingo Road near Eastern Avenue, doesn't believe the media portrayal of the physician who often stopped by her eatery.
"He's the nicest man you'll ever want to meet," she said. "He's very polite and friendly."
Vincent, a Bank of George vice president who said he's a longtime friend of Murray, finds it "terribly sad" what Murray is going through.
Vincent said he was part owner of a distribution company that was set up to bring Pit Bull to Trinidad. Murray invested heavily in the company which he said went out of business in 2007, Vincent said.
"Dr. Murray is an outstanding individual," Vincent said. "He's a reputable physician in Las Vegas."
Still, Vincent said he didn't want to talk at length about his relationship with his friend.
Thomas, however, doesn't want to stop talking about Murray, particularly his relationship with Pit Bull.
As he sat with two cans of the energy drink on his knee, he worried that Pit Bull sales worldwide could be crippled by an unfair association with Murray.
"I've already lost two distributors," Thomas said. "And I think the main reason why is because The Sun and Geraldo said Dr. Murray was a big investor or promoter of Pit Bull. It's all over the Internet."
Thomas said Jackson fans don't want to drink something they think is owned by someone who was so close to Jackson when he died.
But Murray didn't invest directly in Pit Bull, Thomas said. "He invested in a distribution company that would bring Pit Bull, bottled water and candies to Trinidad. There's a big difference."
J.D. Michaux, a spokeswoman at Pit Bull's corporate offices in Los Angeles, said the owner of the company is "highly upset" that his drink "is being tied" to Murray.
"It's definitely hurting sales among Michael Jackson fans." She said the company wants "everybody to know" the distinction between investing in the drink itself and the distribution company.
Thomas said Murray's interest in Pit Bull grew after they met during the filming of a commercial for the drink in Las Vegas.
"He particularly liked that our sugar free drink can be used by diabetics," Thomas said. "Being a doctor, he would never promote anything unhealthy."
Often, Thomas said, he would be with Murray when the doctor took the Pit Bull energy drink to other doctors for a taste test.
"And when his son was on a sports team, he took it there, too."
Frequently, Thomas said, he and Murray ate at local restaurants, including the steak house at the Palms and the El Patron on Flamingo Road. He only met Murray's wife once and described her as a "housewife" who took care of the couple's young boy and girl.
"He really liked to eat out more than anything," he said. "Most of the time it seemed he was a workaholic either here or at his Houston office."
Thomas said Murray has a big heart.
"I have high blood pressure, and every time I came by his office he had his staff check it at no cost. And one time, when he learned that the sponsor of the girl who won Miss USA International dropped his financial support for a trip to the Dominican Republic, he gave her $4,000 for the trip and hotel and to cover her gowns and outfits."
Thomas said he wasn't surprised when he found Murray became Jackson's personal physician.
"One time when Michael was in town, Dr. Murray said he helped his (Jackson's) daughter," he said. Thomas said Murray did not detail the nature of this help.
Thomas said he doesn't know what kind of money problems Murray had, only that he mentioned them.
Stories about Jackson having several doctors, as well as a prescription drug habit, worries Thomas.
"It's hard to say 'no' when the man who is doing the asking is also paying you," he said of the relationship between Murray and Jackson. "I don't know too many people who can say 'no' to $150,000 a month."
Dr. Conrad Murray: Investigating Michael Jackson's Personal Doctor
In the warrant, police said they were investigating a potential charges of "manslaughter,"excessive prescribing," "prescribing to an addict,"excess treatment or prescribing" and "unprofessional conduct."
Propofol was not listed on the court documents among the items seized from Murray's property.
Handout
Other items seized from the storage unit, according to the court records, included two computer hard drives and a "Texas Department of Public Safety controlled substance registration." Authorities also obtained a suspension notice from a Houston hospital.
In the wake of the investigation, a slew of liens and lawsuits against Murray has emerged. In the last three years, Murray has faced lawsuits for unpaid business bills totaling over $700,000, including rent on his medical offices. He also owes more than $13,000 in child support, $70,000 to a business partner with whom he launched an energy drink called Pitbull, and he failed to pay more than $71,000 worth of student loans from medical school.
Murray was also charged with domestic violence in February 1994 while undergoing a cardiology fellowship at the University of Arizona at Tucson. He stood trial in July of that year and was ultimately acquitted.
Murray's lawyers have maintained for weeks that the doctor was simply a witness in Jackson's death and had nothing to do with it. Murray had known Jackson since late 2006, when the singer rented a mansion near offices Murray opened in Las Vegas and called on the doctor to treat one of his children for an undisclosed minor illness. Murray made such an impression on Jackson that the pop star offered the doctor $150,000 a month to be his person physician during his London comeback series of concerts.
Murray didn't set out to be a doctor to the stars. He was born on the Carribean island of Grenada in in 1953. He was raised by his mother in neighboring Trinidad. She never married his father, Dr. Rawle Andrews, a renowned physician in Houston, Texas.
Murray was a customs clerk, a teacher and an insurance agent before beginning his studies at Texas Southern University at age 27. After graduating magna cum laude, he went on to medical school at Meharry in Nashville, Tenn. He then did his residency at Loma Linda University in California before eventually opening a practice in Houston, serving the largely poor, African American community where his father had been a local hero.
Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 4th October 2013, 5:55 pm
posted by Nimue October 30th 2011
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Sunday, October 30th 2011 @ 1:05 AM
I was just going over Cherilyn Lee''s whole testimony and timeline again.....wow she was all over the place.....with her messy notes.....
Yes she was all over the place. I got the feeling she was really upset because she had to testify for the defense. You can notice that in the interview after her testimony where she and her lawyer tried to avoid the press.
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Sunday, October 30th 2011 @ 1:05 AM
After her Dizzy spell she seemed like a new person............even her notes were nicely presented in a folder,and she had the medical books there also .It was like as if she had to re read her lines... with help from the BOSS.There was something I did notice in her testimony when she came back from her dizzy spell.Here is the video. I am not sure how to take a screen shot of the part i am talking about.
Gail, stop the video or not and press the keys crtl and prtSc at any image processor (I use paint) past the picture of the screem and cut what is not necessary, save as JPG to post at the forum.
I don't believe Cherilyn knows about the hoax. I think she really believes Michael has died.
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Sunday, October 30th 2011 @ 1:05 AM
Part 17 day 2.....go to 43.10 and enlarge the screen and you get to see the PDA and Meyers cocktail books that she refers to .the PDA she mentionned a couple of times,and of course me not being medically minded had to see what it meant..... This is the book on the bench......its PDR 59/2005.....now wouldn''t you think she would have the most up to date one?......2005???.
Apart from the hoax, let me make some observations here.
Most of the physicians do not know what the medicine does or not. I mean, the have the basic knowledge but most of them do not know all that a medicine can do to a patient (unless, he is a scientist and does research).
Every doctor has a PDR at his office (or should). The PDR gives details about how the drug works, pharcodynamics, side effect, chemical formula and so on, for the drugs approved by FDA (US).
However is amazing how the numbers plays an interesting role in this hoax.
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Sunday, October 30th 2011 @ 1:05 AM
Of course back then she should have referred to the 2009 version........actually I thought a PDA was some sort of talking device like a small laptop....
Since takes from 10 to 20 years for a new drug to be approved there weren't so many new drugs from one year to another. So new editions of PDR would be just the same with a new cover every year or so.
It seems right know there is a electronic version of it, and the doctor before prescribes to the patient can search from the medicine on his computer.
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Sunday, October 30th 2011 @ 1:05 AM
Another thing with Cherilyn is she gives an insight to her health concerns at the start of this video,where she talks about nearly having her legs amputated because of the serious nature of her excema,and she was.. 7... at the time and also there were.. 7.Doctors looking after her.
Yeah, I noticed that the 7's keep showing up all the time.
In my country 7 is the name of the liar. It is said around that when someone is lying and you ask for an amount or number the liar will say 7 always.
Of course it has a different meaning here, but still is funny to see all the 7's around.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 4th October 2013, 6:05 pm
posted by TruthHunter July 15th 2012
sorry this is my first post so forgive me if it's a bit "messy" Undecided well I looked again at this video and found a few things : How she met Michael !!! so she went to Michael on january 31rst 2009 for the first time because Michael's children had a cold (which one or all of them ?). She had got a call from the "son of a very dear friend" who works as a bodyguard for Michael. Same scenario as for Murray ! Then she goes back to Michael's house on February, 1rst, 2nd, 3rd, 10th, 16th, 27th. She does blood tests on February 2nd in order to find out the reason why he is tired and says she receives the results on the 5th but only talks over the results with Michael for the first time on March 9th !
Thus said while waiting for the results she provided him with IV of nutriments as from February 3rd ....
at 31.44 of the video when asked if she knew about the O2 announcement, she answers "sort of" then "no" then "yes" .. then I found this : "Did anyone note that the nurse testified that her education included a PhD from an online college in the mid-80's. She went on to say it was Clayton College where she received her PhD. This may me wonder as online distance learning in the early days of the internet was pretty much llimited to diploma mills. The nurse is referring to Clayton College of Natural Health, which in the mid-80's was pretty much nothing more than a diploma mill. You received your degree for paying the tuition. The school eventually closed later on and reopened its doors apparently, but at least one state (Oregon) does not recognize the degrees from this school." http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/ ... -propofol/
Many nonaccredited correspondence schools issue "degrees" and certificates which suggest that the recipient is a qualified expert who can provide rational advice about nutrition or health care. These documents are promoted as though they are equivalent in meaning to established credentials—which they are not. One of the most prolific was the Clayton College of Natural Health (CCNH), of Birmingham, Alabama, offered "degrees" and certificates in "natural health," traditional naturopathy, "holistic nutrition" and related subjects. CCNH described itself as "the world's leading college of natural health" with over 25,000 graduates. In July 2010, it suddenly announced that it was closing. This article explains why I recommend avoiding its alumni. http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/Nonrecorg/clayton.html Clayton Health Center is linked to the Church of Scientology Craig Jensen -- Chief CEO, Founder & Chairman Of Diskeeper -- High Ranking $Cientologist - Forces All Employees To Do Hubbard Tech Courses The following 56 individual completions for Craig Jensen appear in official Scientology publications : .../... Cindy Clayton at Clayton Health Center Chiropractor/Nutritionist
Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 4th October 2013, 6:07 pm
posted by TruthHunter July 15th 2012
he he he, second post !
UPDATED: 10:54 GMT, 1 July 2009
utritionist and nurse Cherilyn Lee, who was working with Jackson on his comeback bid, poses for photographs after an interview in California
Lee said at one point, she spent the night with Jackson to monitor him while he slept. She said she gave him herbal remedies and stayed in a corner chair in his vast bedroom. After he settled in bed, Lee told Jackson to turn down the lights and music - he had classical music playing in the house. 'He also had a computer on the bed because he loved Walt Disney,' she said. 'He was watching Donald Duck and it was ongoing. I said, 'Maybe if we put on softer music,' and he said, 'No, this is how I go to sleep.'' Three and a half hours later, Jackson jumped up and looked at Lee, [b]eyes wide open, according to Lee. 'This is what happens to me,' she quoted him as saying. 'All I want is to be able to sleep. I want to be able to sleep eight hours. I know I'll feel better the next day.' Lee, 56, is licensed as a registered nurse and nurse practitioner in California, according to the state Board of Registered Nursing's Web site. She attended Los Angeles Southwest College and the Charles Drew University of Medicine and Sciences in Los Angeles. .....
Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 4th October 2013, 6:09 pm
posted by Nimue July 16th 2012
Quote :
Quote from TruthHunter on Sunday, July 15th 2012 @ 1:01 PM
sorry this is my first post so forgive me if it's a bit "messy" Undecided well I looked again at this video and found a few things :
You are doing pretty well for your first post, unless some Fairy flew around here
Nice findings. I was aware she met Michael throguh the bodyguard and also aboout her degree, but I didn't know too much about the school she got it from.
At my country that kind of degree in Natural health is not certificated. There is a huge discussion on the medical community about it ( and my country is known for Natural health medicines), but I don't know how it works at US.
Over here, most of the grad studies in this area is bounded to tradicional areas of medicine and biology. We have a huge discussion going around since natives now, can have a degree and due to their culture natural health is really important.
Anyway, at mid 80's there wasn't that think of online college as far as I can remember. I know there were degrees that could be obtained by regular mail but not online like it is said. Pretty weird statment.
But even being the "college" linked to the "bad guys" I have my doubts if she is part of it.
Taking in account that she took the course or fake degree (sorry as a teacher this is a fake degree for me), not being in direct contact with the school the changes of her being involved with them are not so high, but I may be wrong.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 5th October 2013, 10:22 am
posted by The Fairy October 26th 2011
TRIAL:
Witness statements (prosecution)
-Michael Henson (Toxicology lab)
original videos deleted/removed
New videos added
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Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 5th October 2013, 10:31 am
posted by The Fairy October 28th 2011
TRIAL
Witness statements (defense)
-Paul White (Propofol expert)
Updated 10/27/11 at 2:00 PM
Anesthesiologist and Propofol expert Dr. Paul White -- the defense team's final witness -- has altered his original claim that Michael Jackson could have died from ingesting Propofol.
White just testified, claiming his initial theory that swallowing Propofol could have been fatal for the singer -- a theory he included in a prior report for the defense attorneys -- was just a plausible suggestion ... not a foregone conclusion.
During opening statements, the defense argued the The King of Pop may have killed himself by ingesting Propofol ... but has since dropped the claim after a study revealed drinking the anesthetic would not be fatal.
Other highlights: * Defense attorney J. Michael Flanagan addressed what he called the "elephant in room," asking Dr. White whether he could justify administering Propofol, and then leaving the patient. White answered, "Absolutely not." * White said he wouldn't expect Jackson to have died from the amount of Propofol Murray claims he gave the singer.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 5th October 2013, 10:32 am
posted by The Fairy October 28th 2011
From CNN
Propofol lollipops anyone? Posted: 09:28 PM ET
Dr. Paul White testified that lollipops laced with propofol may be an effective way to sedate patients without having to give them an IV, because the anesthetic can be absorbed through the tissues in the mouth.
The anesthesiologist also gave his opinion on a study done by the prosecution's witness, Dr. Steven Shafer. That research was conducted in Chile where 6 humans drank propofol with no adverse reactions.
Dr. White agreed with Dr. Shafer saying that propofol can't be absorbed through the stomach, and that he never concluded Jackson died from drinking it. He just speculated that it could have contributed to his death.
Blood testing of one of the subjects from Dr. Shafer's study showed the presence of propofol. Dr. White said this could have been the due to absorption through the tissues in the subject's mouth.
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Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 5th October 2013, 10:33 am
posted by The Fairy October 28th 2011
Thursday October 28
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Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 5th October 2013, 10:34 am
posted by The Fairy October 28th 2011
-Paul White (Propofol expert)
Updated 10/27/11 at 2:00 PM
Defense Expert Backtracks
Anesthesiologist and Propofol expert Dr. Paul White -- the defense team's final witness -- has altered his original claim that Michael Jackson could have died from ingesting Propofol.
White testified yesterday, claiming his initial theory that swallowing Propofol could have been fatal for the singer -- a theory he included in a prior report for the defense attorneys -- was just a plausible suggestion ... not a foregone conclusion.
During opening statements, the defense argued The King of Pop may have killed himself by ingesting Propofol ... but has since dropped the claim after a study revealed drinking the anesthetic would not be fatal.
Other highlights: * Yesterday, defense attorney J. Michael Flanagan addressed what he called the "elephant in room," asking Dr. White whether he could justify administering Propofol, and then leaving the patient. White answered, "Absolutely not." * White said he wouldn't expect Jackson to have died from the amount of Propofol Murray claims he gave the singer. * White told jurors the amount of Propofol that Murray said he gave MJ the day he died was barely enough to reduce anxiety and cause a bit of sleepiness. * White challenged defense expert Dr. Shafer conclusion that Murray gave Jackson at least nine four-milligram injections of Lorazepam from 1:30 a.m. to 5 a.m. on June 25 ... saying those amounts "enormous" and would have put anyone to sleep or even killed them. * White said a more reasonable scenario would be: MJ took 8 pills of Lorazepam -- two or three at a time -- throughout the night. * He explained the reason there were only traces of Lorazepam found in MJ's stomach, is because it's absorbed quickly by the digestive system. Had the Lorazepam been given IV -- as Shafer argued -- NO Lorazepam would have been found in MJ stomach. * White demonstrated to the court how Murray could have easily injected the Propofol into the IV set ... saying it was perfectly safe. * He said there was no reason to go through all that trouble of putting a propofol bottle in an empty IV bag in order to hang it on the stand, when you can just use the tag on the bottle. * White also said the Iv bag should have had at least some traces of the Propofol ... which it didn't. * White said he believed Jackson gave himself a dose of Propofol around 11:30 am. That, together with the Lorazepam and the 25 mg Murray gave him earlier, is what killed him.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 5th October 2013, 10:37 am
posted by The Fairy October 28th 2011
Last part of Thursday
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 5th October 2013, 10:40 am
posted by Nimue October 28th 2011
Well I wasn't around so I cannot say too much, but something interesting here:
Quote :
White challenged defense expert Dr. Shafer conclusion that Murray gave Jackson at least nine four-milligram
Since when Shafer was the defense expert?
Quote :
White testified yesterday, claiming his initial theory that swallowing Propofol could have been fatal for the singer -- a theory he included in a prior report for the defense attorneys -- was just a plausible suggestion ... not a foregone conclusion.
If White admits he was wrong about this how can he prove his new theory is right now?
Quote :
White said a more reasonable scenario would be: MJ took 8 pills of Lorazepam -- two or three at a time -- throughout the night.
With this scenario White only proves that Murray was not watching his patient since Murray allowed his patient to take meds 3 times without even noticing.
Quote :
He said there was no reason to go through all that trouble of putting a propofol bottle in an empty IV bag in order to hang it on the stand, when you can just use the tag on the bottle.
So, how did he explained the 100 mg propofol missing down to the sink?
Quote :
White said he believed Jackson gave himself a dose of Propofol around 11:30 am.
After the patient had taken 8 pills in 3 times without Murray had notice the same patient gives to himself another shot of propofol without Murray seeing.
Another prove Murray was not watching and that Mchael IS SUPERMAN.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 5th October 2013, 10:43 am
posted by The Fairy October 29th 2011
First part of Friday Octber 28 from the morning until mid-morning break...
the livestream had no audio for the first three minutes...
Last part of Friday until the lunch break when court came to recess
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 5th October 2013, 10:46 am
posted by Nimue October 29th 2011
Thanks for the videos Fairy. I didn't have time to watch yet but I want to make some considerations with what the press said about this testimony:
Quote :
"White challenged defense expert Dr. Shafer conclusion that Murray gave Jackson at least nine four-milligram injections of Lorazepam from 1:30 a.m. to 5 a.m. on June 25 saying those amounts "enormous" and would have put anyone to sleep or even killed them."
First of all, what White is saying here is that Shafer is right, only this enormous amounts would put someone to sleep or even killed them. Alleged someone was killled so that is the point of the trial (officially at least).
This statement does not make sense if someone was kiled, it would make sense only if no one had died.
Now let's play the scenario Dr. White portrait (missing doctor at the room and SUPERMAN Michael).
First, lets forget about 100 mL empty propofol found in the bag, lets forget what Alberto said about the saling bag and the propofol bottle in it.
This leaves us with a 20 mL propofol botlles found at the scene, 10 mL syringer, neddles, lorezapan, IV line, Dr. Murray and Michael.
Quote :
White said a more reasonable scenario would be: MJ took 8 pills of Lorazepam -- two or three at a time -- throughout the night.
White said he believed Jackson gave himself a dose of Propofol around 11:30 am. That, together with the Lorazepam and the 25 mg Murray gave him earlier, is what killed him
So let's play, Murray gives to Michael midozelan, lorezapen IV, leaves the room, and Michael wakes up looks (without his reading glasses) for the right bottle of lorezapen takes 4 pills, like candy and again takes another dose of 4 pills without even Murray see it again, so Murray wasnt in the room the two times Michael took the 8 pills.
Michael is not dead yet with all that lorazepan overdose he took when Murray was away. Murray comes back and give Michael on top of all that 2,5 mL of propofol.
The bottle is 20 mL and according to White has to be used in 6 hours after open, so we can take that 17,5 mL of propofol was left in this bottle, assuming Murray didn't use any before 10:50 am.
Now Murray leaves the room again around 11:30 am. Michael wakes up with midazolan, 4 mg of lorezapan intravenous, 8 pills of lorezapen and 2.5 mL propofol in his system
Without his reading glasses he looks for the propofol bottle a 10 mL syringe and a needdle. He attaches the needle in the syringe. Takes the propofol to fill 10 mL syringe pumping air inside of the bottle to remove the liquid (as was shown) for 2 minutes.
After that he looks for the port on the IV line to put the needle of the syringe, give himself 10 mL of propofol. Goes back to the propofol bottle and fills the syringe again with the remain 7.5 mL, looks for the port on the IV line again and gives himself the second bolus, leaving the 20 mL bottle empty on the floor, taking out the neddle from the syringe and placing it on the nightstand and throwing the empty syringe on the floor.
And he goes to bed to die only after all this effort without Murray being in the room.
Is there anything wrong with this scenario?
And also it does not explain why the 100 mL propofol bottle was empty.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 5th October 2013, 10:55 am
posted by The Fairy October 31st 2011
-Paul White (Propofol expert)
Cross examination by David Walgren
TMZ:
* During an aggressive cross examination, prosecutor David Walgren got Dr. White to acknowledge that Murray deviated from the standard of care when he gave MJ Propofol. * White told Walgren he's been paid $11,000 for his testimony so far. He said his usual fee is $3,500 a day. * White also said it's acceptable for a doctor to leave his patient's bedside after 15 to 30 minutes when administering a "small dose" of 25 mg of Propofol. * During a particularly contentious moment, Walgren asked White whether Murray had an obligation to report all the drugs he administered to MJ. White said sometimes, in cases of emergency, details are "overlooked." Walgren then asked whether Propofol was "a detail that was overlooked?" White answered, "Obviously it was overlooked"... Walgren shot back, "Not obviously... It could also be a lie." White acknowledged that yes, It's was possible.
* White acknowledged he would have never agreed to administer Propofol as a sleeping aid ... saying, "no amount of money" could persuade him to do it. * Judge Michael Pastor warned White to stop mentioning personal conversations he had with Murray ... which could allow the defense to introduce statements by Murray without subjecting him to cross examination. At one point, White suggested Jackson had his own private stash of Propofol... Finally Pastor lost his patience, and excused the jury so he could read White the riot act. * After the trial resumed, White told jurors it's possible MJ climbed out of bed, found a syringe containing Propofol that Murray left behind and injected himself with the fatal dose.
From CNN:
Murray defense expert: What is 'standard of care?'
Murray expert threatened with $1K fine Did MJ have a stash of propofol?
From Monday October 2011
Cross examination by David Walgren
videos 1 and 2 deleted/removed
Vid 3 (overlaps with 2nd vid)
Vid 4
Vid 5
vid 6
vid 7
vid 8 (latest added vid from this day)
vid 9
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 5th October 2013, 10:56 am
posted by October 31st 2011
This was some bad ass cross exam by Genius David. Oh the lies, and the lies and the more lies that come out of these people, its really something else. Wish I had part 3 on here to see, just as it is getting nailbitingly interested, well I suppose I have to wait a little longer. I hope the re cross will be equally as brilliant.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 5th October 2013, 11:03 am
posted by The Fairy November 1st 2011
The rest of the vids from Monday have been uploaded and I have posted them in my previous post. They are from two different YouTube Channels because 20 minutes were missing of the first vid I posted yesterday.
The 2nd vid is overlapping the third vid
TRIAL Monday Oct 31
Witness statements (defense)
-Paul White (Propofol expert)
Cross examination by David Walgren
TMZ:
* During an aggressive cross examination, prosecutor David Walgren got Dr. White to acknowledge that Murray deviated from the standard of care when he gave MJ Propofol. * White told Walgren he's been paid $11,000 for his testimony so far. He said his usual fee is $3,500 a day. * White also said it's acceptable for a doctor to leave his patient's bedside after 15 to 30 minutes when administering a "small dose" of 25 mg of Propofol. * During a particularly contentious moment, Walgren asked White whether Murray had an obligation to report all the drugs he administered to MJ. White said sometimes, in cases of emergency, details are "overlooked." Walgren then asked whether Propofol was "a detail that was overlooked?" White answered, "Obviously it was overlooked"... Walgren shot back, "Not obviously... It could also be a lie." White acknowledged that yes, It's was possible.
* White acknowledged he would have never agreed to administer Propofol as a sleeping aid ... saying, "no amount of money" could persuade him to do it. * Judge Michael Pastor warned White to stop mentioning personal conversations he had with Murray ... which could allow the defense to introduce statements by Murray without subjecting him to cross examination. At one point, White suggested Jackson had his own private stash of Propofol... Finally Pastor lost his patience, and excused the jury so he could read White the riot act. * After the trial resumed, White told jurors it's possible MJ climbed out of bed, found a syringe containing Propofol that Murray left behind and injected himself with the fatal dose.
From CNN:
Murray defense expert: What is 'standard of care?' By Graham Winch, October 31, 2011 NEED TO KNOW
Propofol expert is 'unsure' of what legal standard means
Dr. White says if he had a patient in trouble, he'd call 911
Agrees Murray deviated from standard the day Jackson died
Monday in court, defense witness Dr. Paul White testified multiple times he was unsure exactly what the term "standard of care" means.
However, he did say he would have done things differently if he had treated Michael Jackson, and he did believe Dr. Conrad Murray deviated from the standard of care the day Michael Jackson died.
Prosecutor David Walgren asked Dr. White if he agreed with the ways that state's witness, Dr. Steven Shafer, said Dr. Murray deviated from the standard of care. On several occasions Dr. White disagreed with Dr. Shafer’s assessments saying less precautions are needed.
Dr. White testified that all the airway and suction equipment Dr. Shafer requires to administer the anesthetic propofol is not necessary for safe administration.
Walgren asked Dr. White if he has ever given a patient propofol in a bedroom. Dr. White replied that he has never administered the anesthetic in a home setting and has never heard of it happening before Michael Jackson’s death.
Dr. Murray told detectives that he left Michael Jackson alone the day he died for two minutes to use the restroom, and when he came back, Jackson was in cardiac arrest. Dr. Shafer testified that if he gave a patient a 25mg dose of propofol that it would be appropriate to leave the patients bedside if they were no signs of trouble after 15 to 30 minutes.
But Dr. White admitted that he wouldn’t leave the room if he thought the patient could give himself medication.
In a statement two days after Jackson's death, Dr. Murray told police instead of calling 911 when he noticed trouble, he called Jackson’s assistant. Dr. White testified that he would have called 911 right away in that situation.
Murray expert threatened with $1K fine By Amanda Sloane, October 31, 2011 NEED TO KNOW
The defense's expert testified about things Dr. Murray told him
The judge told him to stop
When Dr. White did it again, the judge threatened to fine him
Defense expert Dr. Paul White is in trouble with Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor. Prosecutor David Walgren asked the anesthesiologist who he thought bought the propofol for Michael Jackson. White said it was Murray, but he "heard Jackson had his own."
The prosecutor objected and the judge ordered jurors out. HLN producers inside the courtroom say Walgren then complained that White was taking info he personally got from Murray and incorporating it into his own answers. In order to get anything like this into the trial, Murray would need to testify for himself.
Defense attorney Michael Flanagan tried to explain that it was hard for White to separate what he's learned about the case from all the various sources.
"Nice try," said the judge. "He's smart, he's savvy, and he's trying to add in other material. I don't like it."
Then White did it again. The prosecutor was asking him how he believed Murray gave MJ a bolus and infusion of propofol every night. White started to explain the set up when Walgren cut him short.
"Earlier you said you said you didn't know how that was done," Walgren said. "I asked you specifically how that would have been done and you said you didn't know."
"Sir, I was asked by the judge not to comment on anything I learned from speaking with Dr. Murray," White responded, referring to their off-camera discussion about Jackson's alleged propofol stash.
"Well then you just violated the court's instruction," Walgren said.
After jurors were dismissed for lunch, the judge announced that White had violated his order. He threatened to impose a sanction of $1,000.
This isn't the first time White has been in trouble with the judge. Earlier in the trial, White made a few remarks to an E! Online reporter after his friend, Dr. Steven Shafer, testified for the prosecution. The judge wasn't too happy then, either. He scheduled a contempt hearing for White in November.
The judge said he'll address all the issues with White then.
Short vid on link with David Walgren saying White just violated the court order
Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 5th October 2013, 11:06 am
posted by The Fairy November 1st 2011
Did MJ have a stash of propofol?
By Graham Winch, October 31, 2011 NEED TO KNOW
Expert: Jackson may have hoarded propofol
Also says Dr. Murray may have left Jackson for 40 minutes
Defense witness Dr. Paul White testified that Michael Jackson could have had his own personal supply of propofol, suggesting the fatal dose of the anesthetic could have come from his stash.
The defense is arguing that Jackson self-injected the fatal dose of propofol, not Dr. Conrad Murray.
However, prosecutor David Walgren challenged White that if the fatal dose came from his personal stash, Jackson would have filled the syringe himself. White admitted it was unlikely that Jackson prepped the syringe.
White suggested that while Murray was in the bathroom, Jackson may have grabbed a syringe of propofol already prepared nearby.
There was another scenario that White said was possible, where Jackson got up while Murray was gone and walked around his bedroom -- with his IV and condom catheter attached -- looking for a syringe full of propofol.
Murray told the LAPD that he only left Jackson’s side for a couple of minutes to go to the restroom. However, White said it could have been much longer because phone records indicate Murray was preoccupied with making phone calls for close to 40 minutes.
Walgren asked White if he would have treated Jackson with his demands to be put asleep with propofol. White replied that no a mount of money could persuade him to provide the services Jackson demanded. He later qualified this statement by explaining that the responsibility was too great, the time demands too much and that he was uncomfortable with the off-label use of the drug that Jackson wanted.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger 5th October 2013, 11:10 am
posted by The Fairy November 2nd 2011
TRIAL Tuesday Nov 1
Witness statements (defense)
-Paul White (Propofol expert)
Murray silent as testimony ends in death trial By Graham Winch, November 1, 2011 NEED TO KNOW
Dr. Shafer contradicts Dr. White's testimony
Closing arguments are set to begin Thursday morning
Both the prosecution and defense rested their cases Tuesday in the Dr. Conrad Murray manslaughter trial.
The court is recessed until Thursday morning, when attorneys will present their closing arguments to the jury. After closings, the case will be handed to the jury to decide whether Murray is guilty of involuntary manslaughter.
The defense rested its case after some brief questioning of defense expert Dr. Paul White. The state then called its expert Dr. Steven Shafer back to the stand.
Prosecutor David Walgren focused on key aspects of Shafer’s testimony: White’s theory that Jackson died from a self-administered propofol injection, and the standard of care required for practicing anesthesiology in a home setting. During his first stint on the stand, Shafer testified that Jackson must have been hooked up to an IV drip, because the levels of the anesthetic in Jackson’s blood were too high to have been the result of a single injection.
But White testified the levels in Jackson’s urine were too low for him to have been hooked up to an IV drip for an extended period of time. Therefore, White concluded that Murray injected Jackson with a dose of the propofol, and shortly after that Jackson self-administered another dose of propofol, killing himself.
During the state’s rebuttal, Shafer testified that White misinterpreted the drug levels in the urine, and that the levels of propofol found in the urine do support his theory that Jackson was hooked to an IV drip, which killed him.
Shafer also testified Tuesday about why more precautions are needed when administering propofol outside of a hospital setting. He said that when practicing anesthesiology in a remote location such as in a bedroom, the doctor doesn’t have back up. He said that without proper precautions, problems could result in the death of the patient.
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Subject: Re: Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger
Joanne Bednarzprahsad, Nadar Kamangar, Steven Shafer, Michael Henson, Paul White,Cherilyn Lee, Allan Metzger
