Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 4:40 pm
posted by Nimue on Sunday, October 30th 2011
WARNING! Don't watch this video if you don't want to see the autopsy photo shown at the court.
video deleted/removed
Ok.. I will make a confession. I don't like men with beard, it is not my thing, but on Michael it really push my buttons. I think Michael is really sexy unshaved, so I look for unshaved pictures of his. In this search I noticed that even shaved Michael has a shadow of a beard in all pictures, and this called my attention to the autopsy photo.
Here is an example of Michael picture where he had his beard shaved:
if you compare to the autopsy photo where he is alleged unshaved for 2 days you cannot even see the shadow of his beard.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 4:44 pm
posted by Nimue on Monday, October 31st 2011
Prosecutor to grill key defense expert in Conrad Murray trial
Los Angeles (CNN) -- The anesthesiologist who testified last week that singer Michael Jackson probably died from drugs he gave himself will face questioning by the prosecution Monday in the trial of Dr. Conrad Murray.
Closing arguments, followed by the start of jury deliberations, are likely to come this week in Murray's involuntary manslaughter trial.
Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney David Walgren was given the weekend to consult with his anesthesiology expert on how to attack the testimony of Dr. Paul White, who is the last and most important defense witness.
My comment: Does he need to consult anyone? Just do the math!
The defense contends Jackson's insomnia, unknown to Murray, was a side effect of withdrawal from a Demerol addiction, which they blame on another doctor.
My comment: If it was unknown to Murray why would he start to treat it since April?
White testified Friday that it is his opinion Jackson died after he injected himself with a 25-milligram dose of propofol between 11:30 a.m. and noon. Testimony and phone records indicated it was about noon that Murray realized Jackson was not breathing
My comment: this dose is 2.5 mL dose. What happened to the rest of the propofol in the bottle, vanish?
White called it "an incredible coincidence of circumstances" that the bottle would empty exactly when Jackson died.
My comment: is more incredible that the drugged patient would wait for the doctor to leave the room 4 times to give himself the pills and the fatal dose of propofol.
White also said such a flow of propofol would have made Jackson "sleepy but arousable and breathing spontaneously," but it would not have killed him.
But Murray's own words, spoken to police two days after Jackson's death, led the jury toward Shafer's drip theory and away from White's self-injection theory.
Murray told detectives that the pulse oxymeter monitor on Jackson's finger showed his heart was beating at 122 beats per minute after he realized his patient was not breathing. This would indicate Jackson suffered respiratory arrest first, followed about 10 minutes later by cardiac arrest, a cardiologist and Shafer both testified.
The difference is key to interpreting what the high level of propofol in Jackson's blood means, since a beating heart would circulate the drug through the liver, which would break it down into a metabolite.
White's theory that Jackson died quickly from a rapid injection requires the assumption that his heart almost immediately stopped beating, before Murray would have seen the monitor on his finger.
Hanging the bottle inside a bag also would not work because if Jackson "rolled over and moved his leg, it would easily come out of the bag," White said.
My comment: the patient could rolled over anytime, propofol or not.
He said it would be "irrational" for a doctor to sit at Jackson's bedside and repeatedly inject the sedatives to a patient in very deep sedation, as Shafer's theory implies.
My comment: It seems that White forgot the reason of the trial..
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 4:52 pm
posted by The Fairy on Monday, October 31st 2011
Murray Was Not Doing a Rapid Detox on Michael Jackson October 28, 2011 by lynande51
I want to explain the process of rapid detox so everyone knows that Murray could not have been doing this, just in case this is going to be his next assertion. Rapid detox is a method of detoxifying the body of opiates. It is started in the early stages of withdrawal, and takes hours under general anesthesia. The rapid detox process begins like this: a person is sedated, and then a high dose of one of the opioid agonists is infused IV. An opioid agonist is one of three drugs: Naltrexone, Suboxone and Buprenex. These have to be present and used during rapid detox, or else it is not rapid detox. If you don’t have an opioid agonist infusing with the general anesthesia, there is nothing to replace the opiates in the opiate receptors, so all it would be is sedated. Also, the anesthesia of choice is never propofol because it does not have the longer term effects of Versed for this type of sedation, and there are also the benzodiazepine benefits that are warranted with treatment of withdrawal for the symptoms. All rapid detox does is eliminate the opiates in the opioid receptors and replaces it with the opioid agonist. It is not considered long term treatment for addiction and should be followed up with a treatment program. None of these drugs were found in his system. He was not being rapidly detoxed.
The amounts of Demerol that were given to Michael in Dr.Klein’s office were within the recommended doses in 24 hours. You are not to exceed 900 mg per 24 hours, and it never was exceeded. Once they got that chart figured out, there were fewer days that Michael went to see Dr. Klein. Do we have a final count on those days?
Then let’s touch a little bit on the behavior that they want to say that MJ displayed. They were saying that he was Doctor shopping, but he has had the same three primary care Doctors for the best part of his adult life: Dr. Allen Metzger, Dr. Arnold Klein, and (contrary to the belief of others) Dr. Farshchian, at the Center for Regenerative Medicine in Miami, Florida. People seem to question him because the letter that I will show you has him saying that Michael is an ICON, and it seems like he is awestruck. Well, first of all, English is not Doctor Farshchian’s first language, and second, maybe he believed for whatever reason that Michael needed encouragement instead of being ashamed of his dependency and that was his form of encouragement.
Contrary to what Mike LaPerruque ( I’ll get back to him, believe me, I will get back to him) might think of him, he is a world renowned physician that has a stem cell line that rebuilds cartilage and soft tissue, i.e. leg wound from spider bite. That wound would have required reconstruction because it was black or necrotic dead tissue, which you don’t get that from a needle mark, and you have incredible pain from something like that. It would have to be debrided or scraped, and we can all see that it is over the shin with little tissue, due to Michael’s slender legs. That wound could very well have gone to the bone and that would have required opioid level pain relief. If left untreated that wound would have cost Michael Jackson his leg! But no one thinks about that do they? What would Michael Jackson have done without his lower leg? That would have been like killing him.
Our first encounter with Desiree actually involved this doctor when she said he told a British tabloid that he had been giving Michael depoprovera to curb his desires for young boys. That was first written in November 2005 along with an article that Tom Sneddon was investigating Michael for trafficking controlled substances to Bahrain. Then it came up again after his death. What was that thing that J.Randy Tarraborelli called it when they just add things to something someone said. Oh Yeah, “adaptation”, I will have to remember that the next time I want to tell a whopping lie. It ranks right up there with “he was castrated, but somehow had functional testicles and a penis back when he died“.
So Michael was Doctor shopping because he used other names for his medication to be under. That is such a common practice in Hollywood with celebrities isn’t even funny! Even Janet Jackson does it. Using a pseudonym in a doctor’s office is fine for them because the public does not have the right to know their medical care, and the tabloids are always looking for a way to get them.
Doctor Shopping is a crime. It is something entirely different than what was described in the last 2 days of testimony. Michael was not Doctor shopping when he asked Dr. Metzger for a sleep medication that was IV because he was Michael’s primary care doctor! He was not Doctor shopping when he asked Cherilyn Lee for someone to monitor him because he had been told BY HIS DOCTOR that it would be safe! We can all figure out who that Doctor is, can’t we? He saw her regularly until Murray came along.
Here is what a doctor shopper does: Michael would have been making frequent unnecessary trips to the ER in different hospitals with multiple complaints to find his drug of choice, and by the way Michael would have been just as satisfied with multiple prescriptions of Oxycontin, oxycodone or hydromorphone because they were opiates! Was there one single pill containing opiates found in his home or his blood stream? No, there was not! Maybe someone needs to clarify that for HLN! You know today wasn’t so much about blaming Michael as it was blaming Dr. Klein. He was going to blame him from the beginning and we knew it. He did it to take the heat off himself, and that is the only reason, and guess who was stupid enough to drink that Kool aid? HLN, formerly known as Court TV.
So once again we are back to the opiate use in 2002. I don’t remember if anyone remembers that I showed photos of the drugs found at Neverland when I did my piece on those drugs. Well there were other photos that I am going to show you now, and in it there is a photo of a note that Michael wrote to himself about the Buprenex that was recommended by Dr. Farshchian for a detox and treatment program. That note in no way describes an addict but instead shows us a man that had become physically dependent on Demerol and no longer wanted to be, and was even recovering from it. The letter has information that shows that Michael had the desire not to take that medication and was given an alternative program. It also says that he had tried other methods like cold turkey (a very brave thing to do) and he even tried to get Methadone but no one would give it to him. I wonder who that might have been?
I found a link to a document from the 2005 case. In it is the interview of Mike LaPerruque and Chris Carter by detective Steve Robel, SBSO. It is interesting to read the disloyalty of someone I thought was loyal to Michael. It is another betrayal all over again. The funniest thing about this “copper” is that this nice young 22 year old kid that Michael had him hire was Chris Carter. The most amazing thing I found out was apparently Mike LaPerruque did not believe in background checks, or he would have found that Christopher Eric Carter was a fugitive from Maryland on possession and distribution of cocaine. Some “copper” there Mike? Nice guy to have around the kids! Two thumbs up on the amazing police work! My favorite part of that whole ridiculous story is that Chris Carter was on the phone with the police, giving them information about Michael, and was a witness to the Grand Jury, after he had already committed two of the four armed robberies and kidnappings that he wasconvicted for! He is still a resident of High Desert State Prison in Nevada. I just have one question after reading the list of Murray defense witnesses and seeing Chris Carter on it: did they look for him in the right place so they could get that statement about Michael’s former drug use from him?
In the document that is linked to the Toxicology report from 2004 it shows that the drugs they were running were on the same pair of underwear with two unseen blood spots, item number 511 found in item 510, that bag of garbage. What drugs were found in the blood? Demerol, Normeperidine (the metabolite of Demerol), Promethesine (an anti-histamine/anti emetic), and real live cocaine powder. Do I have to say it again that the cocaine probably belonged to Chris or is that me being presumptive because he was a convicted drug dealer/fugitive when he worked for Michael? There is a little something called credibility, and I think that his current housing situation seriously undermines his! So that was the extent of the 2002 Demerol use. He did not want to take it as the note clearly states. That is not an addict.That is a person that wants to recover!
Maybe someone can explain what all that had to do with Murray using propofol in Michael’s bedroom for insomnia with absolutely no monitoring equipment? Or better yet, if he was so concerned about Michael’s opiate use, then why did he prescribe to him Lortab, when he had pneumonia? Lortab is a combination of Hydrocodone and tylenol, and Hydrocodone is an opiate. He also prescribed him Robitussin AC, which has Codeine.
And why would Murray prescribe to someone as thin as Michael Phentermine , an appetite suppressant, 30-60 minutes before breakfast?
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 4:56 pm
posted by Nimue on Tuesday, November 1st 2011
Michael Jackson's doctor may take stand in own defense
LOS ANGELES – As the trial of Michael Jackson's private doctor nears its end, Conrad Murray stunned the courtroom Monday by telling the judge for the first time that he might testify in the case.
Murray was asked by Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor if he had decided whether to exercise his "absolute right" to take the stand despite his lawyers' advice not to testify.
"I will still need more time to talk to my counsel about it. I have not made a decision," Murray responded.
Asked when he'll decide, Murray said it "depends on how the case progresses." Pastor said he'll ask again Tuesday morning.
Murray's statement came moments after Pastor said he believed all testimony in the case would end Tuesday with a final defense witness — a scientific expert who measures the effects of anesthetic drugs — and then a brief prosecution rebuttal by its chief medical expert. Closing arguments, the judge's instructions to the jury and jury deliberations would follow.
Earlier during cross-examination, Murray's star medical expert, Paul White, agreed that Murray had "deviated from the standard of care" in multiple ways in treating Jackson. White, a Dallas-based anestheiologist, said he would never administer the surgical anesthetic propofol in a home environment, and he criticized Murray for failing to call 911 for help for 20 minutes after noticing that Jackson wasn't breathing.
But White said Jackson died instantly and could not have been revived.
White also said he would not have accepted the job of administering propofol intravenously to Jackson nightly in the singer's bedroom for two months at his request.
"It's something that no amount of money could convince me to do," White said under questioning by prosecutor David Walgren.
White ran afoul of the judge Monday. He repeatedly based his descriptions of Murray's conduct on his conversations with the defendant about the events surrounding Jackson's death.
Pastor said he was "prepared" to fine White $1,000 for contempt of court for violating a court order not to cite those conversations, and to rely only on Murray's statements to police two days after Jackson died.
Otherwise, the judge ruled before the trial, Murray would be attempting to get his modified version of the facts before the jury indirectly without the defendant having to testify and be cross-examined.
Chiding White on the issue, Pastor said, "Dr. White is smart; he's savvy; he understands it. He's trying at every juncture to add in other material. I don't like it. It's not going to happen again."
Pastor ordered White back to court Nov. 16 for a hearing on the contempt issue.
During cross-examination, White told Walgren the defense has paid him $11,000 to date, and he did not retreat from his contention that Murray did not cause Jackson's death.
White stuck to his position even after Walgren ridiculed his proposed scenario: While Murray was inattentive during 35 to 40 minutes of phoning and e-mailing, Jackson got out of bed and grabbed the fatal syringe.
"Under your scenario," the prosecutor said, "Michael Jackson was walking around the room, wheeling an IV stand … and Conrad Murray is somewhere on the phone?"
Murray told police that he had left a sleeping Jackson to use the bathroom. White said that might be permissible if a doctor had monitored the patient for 30 minutes after administering a small dose of propofol and observing no ill effects.
But Murray also told police that Jackson had said he liked to "push in" propofol himself. Walgren asked White whether that fact would change his willingness to leave Jackson alone. "It would certainly make me careful about allowng access to drugs," White said. "No, I would not leave the room."
Dr. Murray considers testifying about Michael Jackson's death
Los Angeles (CNN) -- Dr. Conrad Murray will tell the judge in his involuntary manslaughter trial Tuesday morning if he will take the stand to defend himself against the charge that he is criminally responsible for Michael Jackson's death.
If Murray chooses to remain silent, testimony in the trial is likely to end Tuesday and closing arguments will be delivered Thursday, the judge said.
Ghost of Jackson, “Mr. Lorazepam,” hangs over trial
LOS ANGELES: At times the wood-lined courtroom could have passed for a medical lecture theater: experts with saline drip stands and complicated graphs earnestly demonstrating the half-life of benzodiazepines.
Except that you don’t usually see Janet and LaToya Jackson sitting in the back of a pharmacology class, listening attentively to explanations of sedation thresholds and titration techniques.
But this has been the scene in the plainly furnished room on the ninth floor of the LA Superior Court in downtown Los Angeles, where Michael Jackson’s doctor Conrad Murray has been on trial for the last five weeks.
Jackson – who in one of the more surreal moments of the trial was inadvertently refered to as “Mr. Lorazepam” – has been the spectre hanging over proceedings which come to a climax this week.
“Let’s deal with the elephant in the room here,” defense attorney Michael Flanagan intoned last Thursday. “Conrad Murray has been accused of infusing a dose of propofol and leaving his patient. Can you justify that?”
His star witness, Dr Paul White, couldn’t. But that was what he was here for, to debunk the prosecution claim that Grenada-born medic Murray was guilty of involuntary manslaughter over the King of Pop’s 2009 death.
Murray – who has sat grim-faced throughout the sometimes harrowing, sometimes eye-glazingly dull testimony – denies the charge.
His iPad-wielding lawyers Ed Chernoff and lugubrious sidekick Flanagan have done their best to defy the odds and get him off, arguing that Jackson was a desperate addict who would have killed himself accidentally anyway.
They have been helped by a spectacular litany of medical problems from which Jackson apparently suffered for years before his untimely death on June 25, 2009, on the eve of an ill-fated series of comeback shows in London.
Incontinence, insomnia and mental instability were just three revealed in painful detail at the trial, which heard how Jackson died from a cocktail of the sedatives lorazepam, midazolam and propofol, given to help him sleep.
A condom catheter, intravenous (IV) drug tube and oxygen nasal canulla were attached to Jackson’s body when paramedics arrived, while pictures of his naked corpse on a hospital gurney had his family running from the courtroom.
Led by his mother Katherine and father Joe, the family has filed in every day since September 27, some members more often than others – to sit on the wooden benches reserved for them at the front of the court’s public seating.
Occasionally, they would turn to exchange words with journalists sat behind them, while Jackson fans – winners of a daily ballot for tickets for the handful of spare seats in court – were consigned to the back row.
Genial judge Michael Pastor has drawn praise, sharing jokes with the jurors and court staff – but he is not to be crossed: when a fan’s phone went off near the trial’s start, she was escorted smartly out, the device confiscated.
Early witnesses included a cocktail waitress and a quintessentially Hollywood actress, Murray’s girlfriend – who couldn’t contain her breathless excitement at having met Michael Jackson, even as she discussed his death.
A string of friendly character witnesses came on proclaiming how the “caring” Murray saved their lives and treated them for free – prompting the 58-year-old medic to dab his eyes at one stage.
But the last week descended into a dizzying blizzard of medical testimony, as key witnesses argued over exactly what Murray might have done, or not done, in the fateful hours before Jackson’s death.
Murray’s lawyers, and even the judge seemed to tire at the end, repeatedly confusing the names of the two sides’ opposing propofol experts, one of whom allegedly called the other a “scumbag” in the back of the court.
Flanagan it was who seemed to have most problems concentrating – drawing laughter when, in the middle of another interminable exchange Friday, he called Jackson “Mr. Lorazepam” – and didn’t notice until the judge pointed it out.
Jackson, dubbed various things during his life, including most famously the King of Pop, was clearly a keen student of pharmaceuticals. But some suspect even he would turn in his grave at that new name.
Just a note: Everyday I do a search on google "michael jackson news 2011". Some time ago TMZ articles were listed in the search. For quite some time now none, none of TMZ articles are listed by Google. Weird.....
This is Larry Nimmer video from the courtroom. At 5:38 a friend of Murray is interviewed, look what she says about Murray..
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 4:59 pm
posted by Nimue on Wednesday, November 2nd 2011
Testimony ends in Michael Jackson doctor trial
LOS ANGELES—Michael Jackson's doctor finally made a decision he had long delayed, telling a judge Tuesday he would not testify in his involuntary manslaughter trial.
Minutes later, the defense rested its case and the prosecution, after presenting brief rebuttal testimony, closed its presentation of evidence in the six-week trial. That set the stage for closing arguments to begin Thursday.
Dr. Conrad Murray's announcement came while jurors were out of the room and he was not asked to repeat it for them.
Spectators, including Jackson's mother, father, brother Randy and sister LaToya, seemed to hold their breath before Murray answered one of the biggest remaining questions of his trial, saying he would stay away from the witness stand.
The doctor held his hands together over his mouth in a prayerful pose before Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor asked the cardiologist whether he intended to take the stand.
The judge lectured Murray as he had before on how the decision to testify was his alone and that he also had the right to remain silent.
"Have you made up your mind?" Pastor asked.
Murray paused, looked at all his lawyers, seemed to sigh and said, "My decision is I will not testify in this matter."
The judge asked lead attorney Ed Chernoff if he had conferred with Murray about his rights and Chernoff said yes.
"The court finds the defendant has knowingly, freely and explicitly waived his right to testify," the judge said. "I certainly will respect that decision."
Murray had left open the possibility of testifying on Monday, when he told the judge that he had not made a final decision.
The judge had warned him that testifying brought with it the prospect of tough cross-examination by the prosecution. That may have swayed him along with the fact that the jury already had a chance to hear him tell his story on a recording of a police interview.
When jurors returned to the courtroom, Chernoff announced that the defense had no further witnesses after calling 16 people to testify. A total of 49 witnesses testified for both sides over 22 days of trial.
Prosecutors contend Murray gave Jackson a fatal dose of the anesthetic propofol in the bedroom of the singer's mansion. Defense attorneys claim Jackson self-administered the dose when Murray left the room.
The last witness was propofol expert Dr. Steven Shafer, who was re-called by prosecutors as a rebuttal witness to address a few points raised by his former colleague Dr. Paul White.
In the final moments of testimony by White, he was asked by defense attorney J. Michael Flanagan to differentiate between the "standard of care" and the "standard of practice" by physicians. Prosecution expert witnesses have said Murray's treatment of Jackson was an extreme deviation from the accepted standard of care.
"The standard of care is the ideal," White said. "It is what we would look for for every patient."
But he suggested there are unique situations in which the standard must be adjusted to circumstances and may not reach the highest level.
White has testified for the defense that Jackson caused his own death. But White also said he would not have followed the same procedures that Murray did.
Addressing the standard of care issue, Shafer said that in special cases such as that of Jackson, where a patient is treated in a remote location, the precautions should be above the standard of care, not below.
Noting that Jackson was given the drug propofol in his bedroom, he said, "If there was such a thing as bedroom-based anesthesia, the standard guidelines would be a minimum. There's no tolerance for error because you have no backup."
So many things happens BEHIND THE CURTAINS that not even the jurors know about.
Interesting..
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 5:02 pm
posted by GailShaw on Wednesday, November 2nd 2011
Thanks Nimue.Yes it is all indeed very interesting.
It seems there is a lot going on Behind The Scenes.
Here is the latest from CNN outside the court house.Dr Paul White is trying to get a taxi........note the woman behind him is the same woman that you pointed out in the Larry Nimmer video,and Dr White just happens to be right where she is ......its at .25secs into the video.....also note the wording on the Banners......different ones to when Larry was interviewing her........
Here is the link .........can you help me fix it thank-you
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 5:06 pm
posted by Nimue on Wednesday, November 2nd 2011
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Wednesday, November 2nd 2011 @ 4:41 AM
Thanks Nimue.Yes it is all indeed very interesting.
You welcome dear
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Wednesday, November 2nd 2011 @ 4:41 AM
It seems there is a lot going on Behind The Scenes.
Yeah, still there are things we don't know
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Wednesday, November 2nd 2011 @ 4:41 AM
Here is the latest from CNN outside the court house.Dr Paul White is trying to get a taxi........note the woman behind him is the same woman that you pointed out in the Larry Nimmer video,and Dr White just happens to be right where she is ......its at .25secs into the video.....also note the wording on the Banners......different ones to when Larry was interviewing her........
Maybe Nimmer video was in a different day. I am not sure
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Wednesday, November 2nd 2011 @ 4:41 AM
Here is the link .........can you help me fix it thank-you
The end of testimony was emotional for dozens of the singer's fans who converged at the Los Angeles County courthouse during the six-week trial.
A fan was removed from the courthouse after yelling "Murderer, Murderer" at Murray as he walked down the hallway during a recess Tuesday.
It is amazing, when the cellphone of Murray's "fan" went off during the court the judge didn't ask to remove Murray's "fan".
Fans also surrounded and yelled at defense anesthesiology expert Dr. Paul White as he waited for a cab on a courthouse sidewalk. Others lined both sides of the hallway and held hands as members of Jackson's family walked past.
Parents Joe and Katherine Jackson attended court Tuesday, along with their daughter, LaToya Jackson and youngest son, Randy Jackson.
As Katherine and LaToya left the courthouse, they took with them several signs used by fans in loud protests each day.
Like Michael does.. taking the signs the fans make for him. It reminds of his protest against Tom Mottola where he took a lot of signs from the fans.
Walgren proved his cross-examination skills again Monday in a fiery battle with White over the defense anesthesiology expert's theory that Jackson died from drugs he gave himself.
White's bruises in his battle with Walgren on Monday included a contempt-of-court citation and a $1,000 fine after he ignored repeated warnings from Pastor not to refer to his personal conversations with Murray.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 5:09 pm
posted by The Fairy on Wednesday, November 2nd 2011
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Wednesday, November 2nd 2011 @ 4:41 AM
It seems there is a lot going on Behind The Scenes.
Yes it seems in fact all the really interesting things taking place behind the scenes. The judge's decision to allow footage inside the courtroom also gave him the opportunity to exckude the really good parts and by having the footage there, we know about the good parts. if there hadnt been any footage we wouldnt know all the times they went in conference....
I am wondering how the jurors feel about the things Murray told dr White which we didnt hear the full detalis about, such as Michael stashing away Propofol, Michael wondering around the room, how many times Murray did in fact leave the room etc.
The jurors must feel they have been excluded from a lot of testimony... and how is that even fair in a trial where the jurors are supposed to make the verdict... ?
Ed Chernoff and Orlando Martinez and Scott Smith decided what to ask Murray in the interview... long before any details were known... and Murray isnt taking the stand... that doesnt leave much room for the prosecution....
In fact the Defense and LAPD alone are the only ones deciding what to ask Murray and what to exclude from that interview.. interesting....
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Wednesday, November 2nd 2011 @ 4:41 AM
Here is the latest from CNN outside the court house.Dr Paul White is trying to get a taxi........note the woman behind him is the same woman that you pointed out in the Larry Nimmer video,and Dr White just happens to be right where she is ......its at .25secs into the video.....also note the wording on the Banners......different ones to when Larry was interviewing her........
Yes especially the sign about David fabricating evidence... sounds more like what Tom Sneddon did....
Quote :
Quote from GailShaw on Wednesday, November 2nd 2011 @ 4:41 AM
Here is the link .........can you help me fix it thank-you
I fixed it
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 5:30 pm
posted by Nimue on Wednesday, November 2nd 2011
Houston patients of Michael Jackson doctor watch trial in dismay, anger
Video at the site:
HOUSTON—Elease Lewis speaks quietly, but passionately about her longtime doctor, a man she remembers engaging in lengthy conversations about her health, a physician who opened a clinic in a poor neighborhood to honor his father.
Just listening to her, you’d never guess the doctor she’s talking about is also the man charged in the death of pop star Michael Jackson.
“It hurts me to my heart,” Lewis said. “I mean, I’m in pain. It makes me get on my knees and pray.”
Dr. Conrad Murray has decided against testifying at his own trial, so he won’t speak for himself in court. But as much of the rest of the world sees only the man prosecutors charged with manslaughter in the death of one of the most popular celebrities of our time, patients treated by Murray see him as a humanitarian who saved lives with a practice dedicated to impoverished Houstonians. They’re watching his trial with a mix of sorrow, dismay and anger.
“I’m upset,” said Rev. Floyd N. Williams, pastor of the Missionary Antioch Baptist Church. “I’m mad as hell, because to see a brother have to go through what this man is going through is like sending a signal to the rest of us that, ‘Hell, y’all better be ready. You can’t go nowhere unless we say so.'"
Murray’s patients generally talk only with the consent of his legal team. One of them, Ruby Mosley, testified as a character witness at his trial last week, but she said attorneys advised her against doing any interviews.
However, other patients gathered at his church, led by his pastor, to speak on his behalf before television cameras.
“I see this trial and I feel so sorry for him, because he’s being beat up so much,” said Ransom Craddick, one of the many patients who credit Murray with saving his life. “And he can’t say nothing. And he’s tired.”
They leapt to Murray’s defense because they consider his prosecution unjust. His pastor placed two glasses of water on a table, pointing to a nearly full glass and saying “That’s Michael Jackson.” Then he added water to the glass until it overflowed and said, “That’s Doctor Murray.” His implication was clear: Michael Jackson was a drug addict spiraling downward when Murray arrived on the scene.
“I feel if anybody should be on the stand it ought to be all that Jackson family that let him stayed on drugs forever,” said Eliza Robinson, another one of Murray’s patients. “And then Dr. Murray come along and tried to save his life.”
All of them consider Murray a compassionate neighborhood hero. They talk about him giving scholarship money to local students. And more than anything else, they talk about how he opened a clinic in their low-income neighborhood to honor his father.
“He said, ‘I’m going to Acres Home. And in Acres Home I’m going to set up a legacy for my father,’” Williams said. “We pay him with Medicare. We don’t write big checks.”
So on Thursday, they will watch the closing arguments in Murray’s trial. And some of them say they’ll pray for the doctor on trial in the death of Michael Jackson.
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 5:32 pm
posted by The Fairy on Thursday, November 3rd 2011
Blah blah blah and ....
Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor will start Thursday's court session by instructing the jury on the law guiding the decisions they must make.
The jury must unanimously agree on one of two theories in order to convict Murray on the single count of involuntary manslaughter.
The first theory is that Murray's administration of propofol to Jackson was criminally negligent and it caused Jackson's death.
Although it was legal, as a licensed doctor, for Murray to administer propofol to Jackson, they could find he was reckless in the way he did it, which created a high risk of death.
Criminal negligence requires more than just ordinary carelessness, inattention, or mistakes in judgment, the judge will tell jurors. A reasonable person would have to have known that the action would create such a risk of death.
Prosecutors have laid out a list of acts they allege were negligent, including not having other medical staff present when propofol was used, a lack of monitoring equipment, ineffective resuscitative care when Jackson stopped breathing and a delay in calling for an ambulance.
Using propofol, which is intended to sedate surgical patients, for sleep was another egregious deviation, they argue.
The second theory that jurors could accept is that Murray, who assumed a legal obligation to care for Jackson when he became his physician, failed to perform this legal duty by deviating from standards of care required of a doctor, including, when he left him alone and unmonitored after administering propofol.
The judge asked lawyers to finish their closing arguments by the end of Thursday, so the jury could begin deliberations.
Murray, if convicted, faces up to four years in prison and the loss of his medical license.
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 5:34 pm
posted by Nimue on Thursday, November 3rd 2011
Maybe I am still sleeping... something in this article that I don't understand:
Quote :
The jury must unanimously agree on one of two theories in order to convict Murray:
1.The first theory is that Murray's administration of propofol to Jackson was criminally negligent and it caused Jackson's death.
2.The second theory that jurors could accept is that Murray, who assumed a legal obligation to care for Jackson when he became his physician, failed to perform this legal duty by deviating from standards of care required of a doctor.
I thought the 2 theories that was presented was guilty or not guilty.
Now, there are 2 theories for the guilty option. I don't know from where those 2 theories came out during the trial. The second seems to be less than the first one.
The second is more like a simple breach of contract with no death involved. "failed to perform this LEGAL DUTY..
The second does not sound like jail time at all but more like a fine charged for not performing a contract and could have more effect on medical license than actual jail.
Will the judge give the option of non guilty?
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 5:38 pm
posted by The Fairy on Thursday, November 3rd 2011
Quote :
Quote from Nimue on Thursday, November 3rd 2011 @ 2:24 AM
Maybe I am still sleeping... something in this article that I don't understand:
Quote :
The jury must unanimously agree on one of two theories in order to convict Murray:
1.The first theory is that Murray's administration of propofol to Jackson was criminally negligent and it caused Jackson's death.
2.The second theory that jurors could accept is that Murray, who assumed a legal obligation to care for Jackson when he became his physician, failed to perform this legal duty by deviating from standards of care required of a doctor.
I thought the 2 theories that was presented was guilty or not guilty. Now, there are 2 theories for the guilty option. I don't know from where those 2 theories came out during the trial. The second seems to be less than the first one. The second is more like a simple breach of contract with no death involved. "failed to perform this LEGAL DUTY..
The second does not sound like jail time at all but more like a fine charged for not performing a contract and could have more effect on medical license than actual jail.
Will the judge give the option of non guilty?
This is exactly what I thought and why I posted the article...
I think this is what the judge will clarify today... he will instruct the jurors and probably tell him excactly what it is they need to consider...
I think number one is whether Murray is guilty of killing the patient and the one that could give him 4 years in prison...
Number two is the one that can take away Murray's license as I believe Murray can be found not guilty in causing the death, but still be found guilty of deviation from standard of care.
It would make sense the jurors would have to decide seperately on the two issues.
The trial against Michael also involved several counts and he was found not guilty on each of them one by one.
But it is the first time I see this in an article about Murray and found it interesting.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 5:39 pm
posted by Nimue on Thursday, November 3rd 2011
Why LaToya says Harvey knows more about that???
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 5:43 pm
posted by The Fairy on Thursday, November 3rd 2011
Conrad Murray's attorney claims crime cannot be proved
03 November 2011
Dr. Conrad Murray's defence attorney Ed Chernoff has claimed the prosecution in the involuntary manslaughter trial of Michael Jackson cannot ''prove'' a crime.
Dr. Conrad Murray's defence attorney Ed Chernoff has said the prosecution cannot "prove" he committed a crime relating to the death of Michael Jackson.
Summing up his closing argument in court today (03.11.11), Chernoff told the jury they had an important job in deciding if Dr. Murray was guilty of the involuntary manslaughter of the 'Thriller' singer, who died of an overdose of Propofol in June 2009.
He said: "Mr. Walgren's argument is exactly why, in this country, we have the right to a jury trial. Because no matter what misleading or inaccurate things a prosecutor says, in this country, it's the jury who gets to take the evidence back, it's the jury who gets to look at the evidence and it's the jury that gets to analyse the charge.
And the reason they have refused to accept it is because they won't tell you what they really want. [The prosecution] want you to convict Dr. Murray for the actions of Michael Jackson. They just don't want to tell you that.
"And the reason they have refused to accept it is because they won't tell you what they really want. [The prosecution] want you to convict Dr. Murray for the actions of Michael Jackson. They just don't want to tell you that."
He continued in his direct speech, telling the jury: "Dr. Murray did not kill Michael Jackson. They can't prove a crime. And they really need to prove a crime."
Chernoff added the most likely explanation was that the star "went into his personal bathroom and swallowed Lorazepam and Dr. Murray didn't know."
Conrad Murray's Fate Is Now in Jury's Hands
By Howard Breuer
Thursday November 03, 2011 07:05 PM EDT
A prosecutor Thursday asked jurors to convict Dr. Conrad Murray of involuntary manslaughter for conducting what he called "an obscene experiment" that killed Michael Jackson.
During closing arguments in the nearly six-week trial, Deputy Los Angeles District Attorney David Walgren said that Murray was not so much a doctor to Jackson as an employee. As such, Murray provided a service: administering the dangerous anesthetic propofol all night, every night, in Jackson's bedroom.
Walgren says that when the medical misadventure went awry on June 25, 2009 and Jackson stopped breathing, Murray delayed calling 911 so he could cover up the crime scene. Then, says the prosecutor, Murray withheld the fact that propofol was even involved from paramedics and emergency room doctors.
"Conrad Murray chose not to call 911 because he had other things on his mind – protecting Conrad Murray," Walgren told the seven men and five women on the jury. "He knew of his guilt and he was intentionally giving false and misleading statements."
It was an intense climax to the long-anticipated trial, and dozens of Jackson fans from around the world lined the courthouse hallway Thursday.
Inside Judge Michael Pastor's courtroom, Jackson's mother, Katherine and sister La Toya dabbed away tears as Walgren recalled the emotional impact of Jackson's death on the pop star's three children, who had been looking forward to seeing their father perform a 50-concert extravaganza in London.
"Paris ? screamed, 'Daddy!' as she broke down in tears. Prince had a shocked look on his face and was crying," Walgren said. "This what Conrad Murray did not just to Michael Jackson, but to his children." Defense: This Isn't Reality TV
But lead Murray defense attorney Ed Chernoff countered that the prosecution built a criminal case with no real evidence of a crime, and then tried to make the circumstances seem egregious, because the victim was a huge celebrity. He said there was ample evidence that Jackson gave himself extra doses of propofol and "a load of" the sedative lorazepam.
"They're asking you to convict Conrad Murray for the actions of Michael Jackson," Chernoff said. "We've been dancing around it for two years. If it were anybody [other] than Michael Jackson, would this doctor be here today?"
He also accused the prosecution of playing on the jury's sympathies by unnecessarily identifying Jackson's children and discussing their reactions. He also said they demonized Murray by forcing his attractive, young mistress to testify needlessly about how the propofol was shipped to her Santa Monica apartment.
"There's no perfect villain and no perfect victim," Chernoff said. "I want you to take this case away from Michael Jackson. Let's put it in a psych hospital, into a hospital where a patient breaks into a cabinet; into a family situation where somebody overdoses. But if you're going to hold Dr. Murray responsible, don't do it because it's Michael Jackson."
"This isn't reality TV, this is reality, and the decisions you make will affect real human beings and the people who love them."
A verdict could come as soon as Friday.
Defense: Michael Jackson to blame for own death LINDA DEUTSCH, AP Special Correspondent
LOS ANGELES (AP) — A defense attorney for the doctor charged in Michael Jackson's death told jurors Thursday the singer caused his own death with an overdose of an anesthetic and his physician shouldn't be convicted of killing the King of Pop.
"If it was anybody else, would this doctor be here today?" defense attorney Ed Chernoff asked during his closing argument at the involuntary manslaughter trial of Dr. Conrad Murray.
Chernoff said prosecutors hadn't proven that Murray committed a crime by giving Jackson doses of the anesthetic propofol as a sleep aid in the singer's bedroom.
"They want you to convict Dr. Murray for the actions of Michael Jackson," Chernoff said.
He urged the jury to closely consider Murray's lengthy interview with police and said his words show he didn't give Jackson the deadly dose.
Earlier, during his closing argument, Deputy District Attorney David Walgren projected images of Jackson's grief-stricken children on a giant screen and told jurors that Murray took away their father.
With Jackson's mother and siblings watching from the courtroom gallery, Walgren showed a photo of Jackson at his last rehearsal before the picture of the three Jackson children — Prince, Paris and Blanket — at their father's memorial.
He also reminded jurors of the scene in Jackson's bedroom when Paris came upon Murray frantically trying to revive her lifeless father and screamed, "Daddy!"
"For Michael Jackson's children this case goes on forever because they do not have a father," Walgren said. "They do not have a father because of the actions of Conrad Murray."
The prosecutor repeatedly called Murray's treatment of Jackson bizarre and said there was no precedent for the cardiologist giving the singer the powerful anesthetic to help him sleep.
Still, Jackson trusted him and that eventually cost the singer his life, Walgren said.
"Conrad Murray looked out for himself and himself alone," the prosecutor said.
Murray has pleaded not guilty, with his lawyers arguing that Jackson injected the fatal dose when Murray left the singer's bedroom on June 25, 2009.
Earlier, Walgren, in a carefully structured argument enhanced by video excerpts of witness testimony, spoke of the special relationship between a doctor and patient and said Murray had corrupted it in the treatment of his famous client.
Murray violated his medical oath to do no harm and "acted so recklessly that it caused the death of Michael Jackson," the prosecutor said.
Walgren portrayed Murray as a greedy opportunist who was more concerned with earning $150,000 a month as Jackson's personal physician and traveling to London for his "This Is It" concert than with the welfare of his patient.
He cited evidence showing Murray did not call 911 after finding Jackson unresponsive. Instead he called Jackson's personal assistant, a decision the prosecutor said was just one of the doctor's bizarre actions on the day the singer died.
He suggested Murray delayed the call until he could hide medical equipment and bottles that might incriminate him.
"He's putting Conrad Murray first. He's intentionally not calling 911. He's intentionally delaying help that could have saved Michael Jackson's life," Walgren said.
"What on Earth could motivate a medical doctor to delay making that all-important call?" he asked. "Self-preservation."
Evan after paramedics arrived, the doctor made no mention of giving Jackson propofol because of "a consciousness of guilt," Walgren said.
He ridiculed the defense theory that Jackson injected himself with the fatal dose of propofol and denounced the testimony of defense expert Paul White who blamed Jackson for his own death.
"What you were presented by Dr. White was junk science. It was garbage science," Walgren said.
Chernoff countered that Dr. Steven Shafer, a propofol expert who testified that evidence showed Murray killed Jackson, was wrong and overstepped his role as a scientist by becoming an advocate for Murray's conviction.
He said Shafer ignored Murray's statement to police in which the physician said he gave the singer a small dose of propofol and left the room after the drug should have worn off.
"It doesn't matter, Dr. Murray did not kill Michael Jackson," Chernoff said.
The prosecutor played statements of several doctors who testified that they would never have agreed to give Jackson propofol for insomnia in a private home.
"The setting represents an extreme violation of the standard of care," Walgren said. "No one ever did it until it was done to Michael Jackson. It is gross negligence and it is a cause of Michael Jackson's death."
At one point, Walgren suggested Murray was conducting "an obscene experiment" on Jackson.
With only Jackson and Murray present in the singer's room on the day he died, there will be things that are never be known about his death, Walgren said. But he said it was clear that Murray, untrained in anesthesiology, was incompetent.
"Conrad Murray is criminally liable," he said. "Justice demands a guilty verdict."
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 5:52 pm
posted by Nimue on Friday, November 4th 2011
A manslaughter conviction against Michael Jackson's doctor would boost the late pop star's image and open opportunities for his estate in many markets, including family-oriented products, industry experts said.
A Los Angeles jury begins deliberations on Friday in the six-week trial of Dr. Conrad Murray, who is charged with involuntary manslaughter over the singer's 2009 death from the anesthetic propofol and sedatives.
Jackson is already the top-earning deceased celebrity, with sales of $170 million over the past year, according to a list released last month by financial website Forbes.com.
The "Thriller" singer's global appeal has risen since his death, but some experts said Jackson's image was tarnished by his final days taking intravenous drugs to sleep. Those images may be erased if a jury convicts Murray, and Jackson is seen as the victim of his negligent care.
"In order to sell Jackson for the next generation of consumers and for parents to feel confident with Jackson, this stigma needs to be lifted, and that's what a Murray conviction needs to do," said Jo Piazza, author of the forthcoming book, "Celebrity, Inc," which looks at stars and brand image.
Otherwise, Jackson "will always be known as someone who died of a drug overdose," Piazza said.
Children were some of the most ardent consumers of Jackson music and merchandise dating back to his stratospheric rise up the pop charts in the 1970s and '80s. But his appeal was damaged by child abuse allegations as an adult and his 2005 trial and acquittal on molestation charges.
It was after the trial that his finances hit rock bottom, as he amassed over $400 million in debt.
Court records show the Jackson estate, run by Los Angeles attorney John Branca and music executive John McClain, has fast paid down the debt as it made $310 million in revenue through 2010. But to keep growing, it needs to reach new markets.
JEWEL IN CROWN
In addition to sales of his own music, Jackson's estate is powered by a stake in the Sony/ATV music publishing catalog, which is estimated to generate over $50 million a year. But his name and likeness are licensed in many different ways.
The latest centerpiece in the late King of Pop's crown is "Michael Jackson: The Immortal World Tour" theatrical production from Cirque du Soleil, which launched last month. That show is generating average ticket sales of $1 million a night, according to tracking firm Pollstar.
With the estate's blessing, Cirque is collaborating with Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas on a permanent show in 2013.
Some Jackson watchers see the possibility of building a theme park inspired by the singer's famed Neverland Ranch in central California, which itself was a private amusement park.
Jermaine Jackson wrote in "You Are Not Alone Michael" that he and his brother sketched out in 2007 the possibility of creating an attraction in the Middle East called "Crystal City" that would incorporate elements of Neverland.
"I think there could be a theme park, where you infuse the historical elements and memorabilia from his storied career," said Marvet Britto of the Britto Agency brand strategy firm.
If the Jackson estate can lock in the family market, annual revenues from that segment alone could bring the estate $50 million to $100 million, which would keep Jackson at the top of the list of late celebrities, Piazza said.
Cooper Lawrence, author of "The Cult of Celebrity," said the trial had helped the singer's sales potential because it brought him back to the top of the headlines, and that innumerable products would come from the estate.
"I think we haven't even scratched the surface of Michael Jackson," she said.
Conrad Murray Trial Wraps On 30th Anniversary Of Elvis Doc’s Acquittal
History is rife with examples of people falling all over themselves to get close to kings. Unfortunately it is also lousy with examples of those same people helping those kings make some really bad decisions.
Talk about being pressured into a bad decision. Sarah made him buy this castle right before the bubble burst.
One such enabler will soon put his fate in the hands of a jury. The manslaughter trial of Dr. Conrad Murray, former physician for the late King of Pop Michael Jackson, wraps up tomorrow (November 3) on the heels of Murray’s first-ever wise decision: to not testify on his own behalf. Murray has been accused of enabling the troubled singer’s addiction and instability, introducing him to the powerful anesthetic drug Propofol. The charges stem from the allegation that Murray injected the 50-year-old pop star with Propofol on the day of his death, causing an accidental overdose. Bodyguards and household staff at the Jackson home on that fateful day in June 2009 testified that Dr. Murray asked them to hide vials of the drug before calling 911 to aid the unresponsive singer.
Because, you know, no one likes a cluttered crime scene.
As the case goes to [what is soon to be known as] the Murray Jury, we remember an eerily similar trial that came to a close 30 years ago this week. One that just so happened to involve Michael Jackson’s late father-in-law.
On November 4, 1981 Dr. George Nichopoulos (better known as “Dr. Nick”) was acquitted of 11 counts of criminally overprescribing addictive drugs to a stable of famous and near-famous clients, most notably the original King, Elvis Presley. Presley died at 42 in August 1977. While the cause of death was a massive, sudden heart attack the, a criminal complaint against Dr. Nick reported that “in the first eight months of 1977 alone, he had [prescribed] more than 10,000 doses of sedatives, amphetamines and narcotics: all in Elvis’s name.”
This is somewhat akin to having someone yank a trampoline out from under you, causing you to fall on a bed of poisonous spikes and listing the cause of death as bad jumping.
Might someone have warned Elvis that "First, do no harm. Then get naked for the family portrait" is not in the Hippocratic Oath.
Dr. Nick had his medical license temporarily yanked for three years only to lose it permanently in the early 1990s when Tennessee officials once again charged him with criminal over-prescription. He recently wrote a tell-all about his relationship with The King and has been only too happy to comment on the Murray trial. Michael Jackson and Elvis Presley were both talented, trailblazing, polarizing, troubled artists that many saw headed for self-destruction even in early adulthood. Both men literally had everything they could ever want except peace of mind (and possibly an infinite supply of simian pals), yet still crashed and burned; no-longer-living-proof that addiction is a disease. Both, as powerful as their disease was, bear some responsibility for their own deaths. And yes, if Dr. Murray or Dr. Nick had shown some class and refused to enable their millionaire clients, ***** and Elvis would have just found another dealer…er, doctor.
But both doctors could have stood up to their patients earlier and walked away knowing that they weren’t helping sick souls leave behind their children and friends far too soon. In Murray’s case, he would have the peace of mind that *****’s own kids wouldn’t have watched him pass. As a mom myself, this makes me want to punch the guy.
Michael Jackson and Elvis Presley might not have survived their respective demons but at least both doctors would have known they didn’t accelerate the process.
I'm Optimistic Dr. Conrad Murray is "optimistic" about his chances for acquittal ... this according to people close to the doc.
Murray spent last night at home, with his baby mama Nicole Alvarez and their child. Murray says he has faith the jury will not come to the conclusion he caused Michael Jackson's death.
Murray has been the poster child for projecting innocence during a criminal trial, frequently seen strolling in Santa Monica and appearing carefree. Two nights ago, he went to a popular Malibu restaurant with some of his patients.
Jurors begin deliberations in involuntary manslaughter case against Michael Jackson’s doctor
After six weeks of listening, jurors in the involuntary manslaughter case of Michael Jackson’s doctor began deliberations Friday morning.
Their discussions behind closed doors in a downtown Los Angeles courthouse could lead to the conviction or acquittal of Dr. Conrad Murray, whom the panel has heard described alternately as an inept and opportunistic physician or a naïve outsider granted access into Jackson’s inner realm.
Media were camped outside the courthouse and in the courtroom where the jury’s decision will eventually be read. There was no sign of Murray or attorneys handling the case, but they will receive a two-hour notice when a verdict is reached. Murray waived the need for his presence if the panel asks any questions, but must be present when a verdict is reached.
My comment:Was there any other option than Murray to be there for the verdict?
“Poor Conrad Murray,” prosecutor David Walgren replied in his final speech to jurors. “Michael Jackson is dead. And we have to hear about poor Conrad Murray and no doctor knows what it’s like to be in his shoes.”
My comment: this reminds me what Michael said and what was said about Michael.
The Houston-based cardiologist’s culpability will be decided by jurors, who heard from 49 witnesses and have more than 300 pieces of evidence to consider. They were given lengthy instructions about how to deliberate and interpret the case.
If Murray is convicted, he faces a sentence that ranges from probation to four years behind bars, and he would lose his medical license. The sentence will be decided by Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor and not the jury; the judge will receive input from attorneys for both sides and probation officials if necessary. A recent change in California law means that Murray, 58, might serve any incarceration in a county jail rather than a state prison.
If acquitted, Murray would be free from criminal prosecution, but will likely be pursued by medical licensing authorities in the states of California, Nevada and Texas.
So, his acquital does not grant his medical license as Ed Turn-Off said in court. This reminds me of Murray's letter saying he would leave the practice INDEFINITELY
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 5:56 pm
posted by The Fairy on Saturday, November 5th 2011
Conrad Murray trial: No verdict yet after day of jury deliberations
11/04/2011 by Corinne Heller
A Los Angeles jury began deliberating the fate of Conrad Murray, the doctor accused of involuntary manslaughter in the death of Michael Jackson, on Friday but ended the business day with no verdict.
The jury is made up of seven men and five women. Deliberations began on Friday at 8:30 a.m. local time. The jurors went on several breaks and had a catered lunch of Chinese take-out before ending their talks around 4 p.m. They discussed the case for about six hours and are set to return on Monday, November 7 at 8:30 a.m. PT / 11:30 a.m. ET.
When the jurors finish their deliberations, they are expected to signal they have reached a verdict by having a buzzer pressed three times. The judge is then set to announce that the jurors are expected to soon announce formally that a decision has been reached on the case. Approximately two hours afterwards, the verdict is expected to be read in court.
Katherine & Joe Jackson We're Shackin' Up Near the Courthouse
Katherine and Joe Jackson are currently on their way to a hotel near the L.A. County Superior courthouse ... so when the jury finally reaches a verdict, they're right near the action.
Katherine and Joe live in Calabasas -- with traffic, it could take over two hours to get to the courthouse ... and we're told, they just didn't want to chance missing a beat.
According to sources, they plan to check in and stay for as long as it takes the jury to come to a decision.
It's unclear if other members of the Jackson family also plan to crash nearby the courthouse.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 5:58 pm
posted by Nimue on Saturday, November 5th 2011
This family really likes "hotels", so many hotels since all started.. I wonder who is with Michael's children, daddy?
Jackson Family on Standby
The Jackson family is NOT inside the courtroom this morning ... as they have been for most of the Conrad Murray manslaughter trial ... but sources tell TMZ -- they WILL be when the verdict is read.
Sources close to the family tell TMZ ... the family is expected to get a 2-hour heads up when the jury is ready to present their verdict to the judge ... at which point, Katherine, Jermaine, La Toya and the rest of the crew will head on down to the courthouse.
The jury has already begun deliberating -- and they could return a verdict at any moment.
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 6:00 pm
posted by The Fairy on Saturday, November 5th 2011
William Wagener uploaded a vid from the trial and in the description writes that the jurors have already reached a verdict...
JURY reached a Verdict, Friday Nov. 4th, but won't announce until Monday 7th, in Conrad Murray InVoluntary Manslaughter case. Here is part of Defense Atty. Chernoff, and Atty. for the Prosecutor, David WALGREN's last words to Jury.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 6:01 pm
posted by Nimue on Saturday, November 5th 2011
I couldn't watch the whole video (internert problems), but it is very interesting what is on the description:
Quote :
JURY reached a Verdict, Friday Nov. 4th, but won't announce until Monday 7th, in Conrad Murray InVoluntary Manslaughter case. Here is part of Defense Atty. Chernoff, and Atty. for the Prosecutor, David WALGREN's last words to Jury.
So there we go the seven again...
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 6:02 pm
posted by ElkeHassell on Saturday, November 5th 2011
Just received a message that the verdict was reached on Friday but will not be announced until Monday. Any info on that????
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 6:07 pm
posted by The Fairy on Saturday, November 5th 2011
Quote :
Quote from Elke Hassell on Saturday, November 5th 2011 @ 9:07 AM
Just received a message that the verdict was reached on Friday but will not be announced until Monday. Any info on that????
I moved your post over here, Elke.
The Fairy wrote:
William Wagener uploaded a vid from the trial and in the description writes that the jurors have already reached a verdict...
Quote :
JURY reached a Verdict, Friday Nov. 4th, but won't announce until Monday 7th, in Conrad Murray InVoluntary Manslaughter case.
Update on that is that I just spoke to William Wagener and according to his source whom I will remain nameless here, the jurors were heard muttering to eachother that they werent allowed to tell anyone which verdict they had reached. So unless something else happens during the weekend, they should have the verdict read out on Monday the 7th
Former patient in Houston stands by Dr. Conrad Murray
I posted about the subject two posts up on this thread as William Wagener posted this with his vid:
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 6:09 pm
posted by Nimue on Saturday, November 5th 2011
Michael Jackson's Former Bodyguards: 'Michael Wouldn't Have Wanted Conrad Murray On Trial'
Two of Michael Jackson's former bodyguards have given the late singer's physician, DR. Conrad Murray, a big boost as he awaits a verdict in his involuntary manslaughter trial - by going public with calls for the medic's acquittal. Murray has denied allegations he administered the fatal dose of anaesthetic propofol which cost Jackson his life in June, 2009. The six-week case was handed over to the jury to begin deliberations on Thursday afternoon (03Nov11). But Jackson's ex-security guards, Javon Beard and Bill Whitfield, insist their former boss would be disappointed to learn his life was being scrutinised during a very public trial - and he'd have hated to see his trusted physician facing prison time for his death. Beard and Whitfield hope the medic is acquitted of manslaughter and in an interview on U.S. breakfast show Good Morning America on Friday (04Nov11), Beard said, "There's no way in hell that Dr. Conrad wanted to kill Mr. Jackson. Why would he kill his paycheque?" And Bill Whitfield added, "He (Jackson) would not step into another court room again. This trial brought him back into a court room. His character was back into question (sic)."
The minders insist that Murray should not be singled out as the one doctor who made dangerous drugs available to Jackson, as the King of Pop battled chronic insomnia. Beard insisted, "It's way bigger than Dr. Conrad Murray." And Whitfield continued, "That courtroom wouldn't be big enough to hold everyone in it that we feel would be accountable (for Jackson's death). "If Dr. Murray may have helped Mr. Jackson sleep, we certainly believe there were certainly (sic) other doctors helping him to stay up (to perform during the day)." Murray is the only medic charged in relation to the King of Pop's passing. His defence team maintains the singer is responsible for his own death by self-administering an overdose of propofol.
"There's something so stagey about the way all of this looks"
Jackson's final show is coming to an end
The trial of Dr Conrad Murray over Michael Jackson's death has been a surreal pageant, writes Julia Molony
Sunday November 06 2011
Even by American standards of courtroom theatrics and melodrama, the trial of Michael Jackson's personal physician Dr Conrad Murray has been a once-in-a-generation show.
In the months running up to his death, Michael Jackson had been preparing his big comeback. With a sell-out tour in London's O2 Arena planned, he was making a bid to restore himself as the world's greatest entertainer. It's rather poignant then, that the great spectacle he had planned gave way tragically to one even bigger, even more gripping -- the trial that sought to determine who is responsible for his death.
In a slightly surreal twist, everyone present at the courtroom in Los Angeles seemed to have a heightened awareness of the roles they played for posterity in this saga. From the protesters outside the courtroom, bitterly pitched against each other, wearing custom-made T-shirts and placards which rename Dr Murray as Dr Murder, to the Jackson family, arriving daily with their dark suits and dark glasses, heads bowed against the glare of the paparazzi.
There's something so stagey about the way all of this looks. It would almost seem like pastiche, were it not for the clear and brutal fact that Jackson is dead. Had he been alive today, he would still only be 52
In life, Jackson's greatest tragedy was that his identity as an entertainer eclipsed his existence as a human being. In death, alas, plus ca change.
Throughout the duration of the trial, Dr Murray, the man charged with Jackson's homicide, was cast as the stock villain. Having pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter, he's spent the past few weeks gazing from the dock with a look of stricken dismay, occasionally punctuated by tears, frantically hoping his script included a dramatic reversal of fortune.
Outside the courtroom, we know him only by his occasional trips out to stock up on new shirts, spend time with his family or to get a quick pedicure. All of these things, naturally, have been carefully documented by the paparazzi.
The judge in the case had carefully ordered that details of Dr Murray's private life be left out of the trial. Yet still, the jurors have plenty of information from which to construct a profile.
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 6:19 pm
posted by Nimue on Sunday, November 6th 2011
Quote :
Quote from mjmtc on Saturday, November 5th 2011 @ 2:22 AM
Katherine & Joe Jackson We're Shackin' Up Near the Courthouse Katherine and Joe Jackson are currently on their way to a hotel near the L.A. County Superior courthouse ... so when the jury finally reaches a verdict, they're right near the action.
Katherine and Joe live in Calabasas -- with traffic, it could take over two hours to get to the courthouse ... and we're told, they just didn't want to chance missing a beat.
Why would they stay at the hotel during the weekend?
It does not make sense
I assume that from Calabasas to the court takes more than 2 hours driving but don't they have a house at Encino?
Is there someone else staying at this hotel?
Quote :
Quote from mjmtc on Sunday, November 6th 2011 @ 12:13 AM
From ABC News. Interview with Arnold Klein and thoughts about a "hung jury" Watch vid at
I thought it would be a whole interview with Klein, but it was just a few sentences. By the way, Klein sounds like he is drugged.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 11th October 2013, 6:22 pm
posted by The Fairy on Sunday, November 6th 2011
Dr. Conrad Murray's Latest Defense Strategy: Praying
Today 11:31 AM PST by Ken Baker
Facing Day 2 of jury deliberations tomorrow in his involuntary manslaughter trial, Dr. Conrad Murray spent Sunday morning at an L.A. church service.
An eyewitness tells E! News exclusively that Murray, along with his girlfriend Nicole Alvarez, attended the 11 a.m. worship service at West Angeles Church on Crenshaw Boulevard. But during the sermon, Murray apparently felt like he had to run.
At one rather spirited point in the service, Murray got up from his seat and "ran around the church" with friends after the minister urged churchgoers who needed "a change in their life" to get up and run around the sanctuary.
"He had his hands up in the air and did a lap," says our eyewitness.
Later, at a more solemn moment during the altar call, Murray spoke at the altar privately with the pastor, Rev. John White, who reportedly gave Murray some words of wisdom and encouragement.
"You can have Hollywood, but who you really need is Jesus. So if you have Jesus and Hollywood, you've got it going on," he told Murray. "So if you chase Jesus, he will make the spotlight come on you. And guess what, when you get up there, you won't come tumbling down in the news. I speak to you, sir: The word of God can wipe the slate clean."
Murray was upbeat and energetic, clapping along with the congregation throughout the service.
