Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 7th October 2013, 4:47 pm
posted by GailShaw on Wednesday, October 12th 2011
The latest from Pearl .
Sorry if its in the wrong place....I do often get lost here as to where to place information,especially when there is so much going on at once.
Cheers
Also about the date being 08/25/09.......I went over it again a few times and personally have come to the conclusion that its 06/25/09.......I think this was bought to our attention on purpose as to whether it was an 8 or 6 ........because it was the Prosecutor Walgren that did question it.......and why did he do that................it was then quickly just brushed off.........So I'm guessing we are to look back in history at that date the 25th August.....and of course Pearls video has done this....
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 7:01 am
posted by Nimue on Wednesday, October 12th 2011
LaToya's tweet during the trial yesterday:
@latoyajackson La Toya Jackson On the plane having my Caviar! 8hrs ago
Libo Agwara Attorney for Dr. Adams: Murray is Lying; Killed Michael Jackson UPDATE
video at the site
Libo Agwara date: Oct 7 2011 Attorney for Dr. David Adams Dr. Adams is an Anesthesiologist
+says Dr. Adams has only met Murray once +says Murray is lying +says his client has only given Michael Jackson propofol 4 times in 2008 in a medical setting when Michael had +says murray told Dr. Adams he could get somebody to join the tour for less money than his client was asking +says his client turned down murray's offer to join murray on the London tour +says Murray was pressuring local doctors to give MJ propofol as far back as 2007 (admin note: woah!) +says murray overruled Michael jackson and hired himself (murray) +says murray didn't want anybody else close to MJ +says murray had total control over MJ +says murray killed MJ himself +says will be looking to file a lawsuit against Conrad Murray +says Adams will sue Murray +says Adams is very angry
+says Adams does not administer propofol to anyone outside of a medical setting
+says "My client doesn't run around giving people propofol in their homes. He does them in medical settings and for appropriate procedures."
+says "Just so you know, Jane, we have information that as far back as 2007, Dr. Murray was pressuring some local doctors to actually give Michael Jackson propofol. So first of all, he hasn't even come clean regarding when he started pushing propofol on Michael Jackson"
+says "What happened to Michael Jackson was as a result of Dr. Murray's greed. Not only did [Murray] not hire another specialist, he decided to hire himself. And he didn't know what he was doing. Let me tell you something, if Michael Jackson had hired who he wanted to hire, he would still be alive today. Dr. Murray overruled Michael Jackson and hired himself because if my client (Dr. Adams) had been hired, Dr. Murray would not have been getting $150,000 a month. Because there would be no need for [Murray]."
+says, "Murray did not want anybody else close to Michael Jackson. He had absolute control over that man."
+says, "[Murray] killed that man by himself."
+says, "My client has put over 6,000 people to sleep. They all woke up. That's what Dr. Murray needs to remember.
Dr. Conrad Murray's lawyer announced in court this AM that Murray is abandoning the argument that Michael Jackson accidentally killed himself by orally self-administering Propofol.
Michael Flanagan said in court today that an independent study by the defense showed swallowing Propofol would not produce fatal results.
Associated Press initially reported that Murray's lawyers were dropping the claim that MJ self-administered the fatal dose, but that is not accurate.
Lead lawyer, Ed Chernoff, said in opening statements that they would show MJ self-administered the drug. Chernoff can still argue that MJ injected the fatal dose after awakening and becoming frustrated.
I didn't hear Flanangan saying that in court yesterday. did you?
Dr. Conrad Murray The Interview that Sunk Him
Dr. Conrad Murray would NOT be on trial today for Michael Jackson's death ... had he politely declined to speak with cops 2 days after MJ passed ... law enforcement sources tell TMZ.
Sources directly connected with the decision to prosecute Murray tell TMZ ... Murray's 2-hour interview with LAPD detectives at the Ritz Carlton Hotel in Marina del Rey gave prosecutors the ammo to charge the doc.
Our sources all say, prosecutors almost declined to file the case, but the police interview made all the difference.
We're told ... police and prosecutors believe they never would have been able to prove Dr. Murray administered Propofol to Jackson almost every day for 2 months, were it not for Murray volunteering the info. The case hinges on Murray's alleged reckless medical treatment, and prosecutors believe administering the drug in a home setting for that period of time proves recklessness.
And, our law enforcement sources say, cops could never have proven that Murray pumped a total of 5 gallons of Propofol through MJ's system were it not for the interview.
But there's something even more fundamental. We're told it became apparent to detectives shortly after Murray's interview that the doctor wasn't telling the whole truth. As one law enforcement source put it, "He told the truth 70% of the time during the interview, and lied 30% of the time. And the lies created the suspicion that led to the investigation that led to charges being filed."
The real question -- why did Murray volunteer to speak with cops and spill his guts? As one source put it, "Murray and his lawyer never thought he'd be charged with a crime. He was worried about the bad P.R. and felt he could put a lid on it." And another source added, "smart people who are arrogant think they can talk to cops and make a problem go away, but it doesn't work that way."
Hmmm Could Murray decline the request for interview?
I am wondering, was that trial really part of the original hoax plan and the hoax plan had to be ajusted because this trial wasn't suppose to happen?
If this trial wasn't suppose to happen, if it wasn't part of the hoax plan, could be this the reason we noticed so many "mistakes" and inconsistencies?
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 7:11 am
posted by mjmtc on Thursday, October 13th 2011
Quote :
Quote from Nimue on Thursday, October 13th 2011 @ 8:18 AM
Hmmm Could Murray decline the request for interview?
I think Murray easily could have declined the interview but then he probably would have been faced with being taken in for a real questioning. If we see as this with nonbeliever eyes, like the media does, it takes you in one direction, but knowing it is a hoax, the problem always begins with the fact that we dont know who is in on the hoax and how much the police knows. Im addressing this in my coming vid.
Murray didnt have to say anything and like Mary Jo pointed out: in this interview he is not under oath. He isnt telling lies about Michael being dead in a forum where he can be charged with telling lies: in trial. And as long as he doesnt testify, noone can challenge his opinions. Murray talks nonstop in this interview and there is a lot of info we need to listen to carefully. All part of the plan.
Sometimes it seems TMZ believes in the hoax and sometimes not. They dont go out openly and directly say they believe but they are raising questions with this article, BECAUSE they are calling attention to a hoax.
Quote :
Quote from Nimue on Thursday, October 13th 2011 @ 8:18 AM
I am wondering, was that trial really part of the original hoax plan and the hoax plan had to be ajusted because this trial wasn't suppose to happen?
I have no doubt at all that the trial was part of the hoax from the beginning. Michael wanted to get us to see the whole connetion with the bad guys and what happened to him in his own trial etc etc... only through this trial being on live stream for all to see could he in a very smart way show us what was going on and we see the different statements from different people. Without a trial we wouldnt know anything about this.
Quote :
Quote from Nimue on Thursday, October 13th 2011 @ 8:18 AM
If this trial wasn't suppose to happen, if it wasn't part of the hoax plan, could be this the reason we noticed so many "mistakes" and inconsistencies?
The mistakes and inconsistencies are there to sho us it is a hoax and to call our attention to what we need to look deeper into. Again a trial is a perfect way to call attention to certain facts.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 7:23 am
posted by mjmtc on Friday, October 14th 2011
As I have been doing the "Hearing, Trial and Contradiction" thread, I have been posting transcripts from the court (my own transcripts) but it turned out to be a lot of work and I concentrated on the bodyguards and the paramedics.
Then I have additionally been using a certain hardworking guy's YouTube videos as the recording of the trial.
He has now been hit with a copyright issue from CNN and Associated Press although they are not the ones running the livestream (but still Murdoch owned).This gentleman is trying to work his way around it, but so far we have no videos later than the one with dr Nader Kamangar. He is also planning on collecting the trial in a dvd collection and shipping for free.
I like his comment in the end of him being able to give someone a hug without getting to jail for it...
original 3 videos deleted/removed
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 7:27 am
posted by Nimue on Friday, October 14th 2011
Dr. Conrad Murray If Convicted ...
He May End Up On House Arrest If Dr. Conrad Murray is convicted of felony involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to the maximum -- 4 years in state prison -- he will not spend a single day in prison ... and he could end up on house arrest.
A new law went into effect in California on October 1, which says, because of overcrowding, people convicted of non-violent felonies cannot be sent to State prison. Instead, non-violent felons serve their time in county jail.
Law enforcement tells TMZ ... involuntary manslaughter is a non-violent felony, which means if Murray is convicted he'd go to L.A. County Jail.
As for how much time Murray would serve ... L.A. County Sheriff's officials tell TMZ ... Murray would be jailed for half the actual sentence. So if he gets the max -- 4 years -- he would only serve 2.
But there's a twist ... Murray could actually serve way less than 2 years. Because of severe overcrowding, inmates are eligible for house arrest, based on 2 factors -- their prior criminal history, and risk to the community. Murray has a clean record and, as one law enforcement official put it, he poses no risk ... it's not like he's going to go out with a bottle of Propofol and kill people.
So if the jail is filled to the gills, the Sheriff could put him on house arrest with an electronic monitoring bracelet. But one official from the Sheriff's Department told us ... Murray wouldn't be placed on house arrest right out of the box. He would almost certainly do some time before the jailhouse doors would open.
"Four years to do it".. two years are gone, so 2 years or less than 2 years left to go'..
Does not this porch look like the one from the house on hollywood tonight video?
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 7:35 am
posted by The Fairy on Friday, October 14th 2011
Posting this here as well as my next few vids will be specifically about the Murray trial. This one a little bit about the animals in court
Michael Hoax Trial and Tribulations 56 Murray & the animals in court (MsFlyingFairy)
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 7:36 am
posted by Nimue on Friday, October 14th 2011
Another great video Fairy. Thank you so much for all this work, I cannot imagine how you can do it in such a short time.
Nice touch with the pink panther. I was watching so serious but I couldn't help and I had to laugh, only Michael to have this sense of humor and at the same time send a message.
Interesting connection about the the timelines you know that this is something that I am paying attention in this hoax and it makes perfect sense in the way you show it.
Sorry, to say... but I want more... no pressure
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 7:38 am
posted by thezen2580 on Friday, October 14th 2011
the charges should be changed to first degree murder!!! this was a plan ..to kill MJ and get away with it!! the tape conrad used in court to try to show MJ being out of it on drugs.. Im sure conrad got him in this condition to tape and use in court! think MJ was a prisoner in his own home no house phone..he had one at neverland his cell number was being changed all the time so no one could contact him back.. MJ tried to get help!! to save his life!!! the tight security was to keep all away from MJ so he couldnt get help!! conrad dont mind being in jail for only 4 years to collect millions for killing MJ its worth it to him!! didnt MJ have a housekeeper? that cleaned his room? where is she? and where are the security tapes??????? so many lies! where is MJ ?? thought his funeral was disgusting! and was it real? you would think he would have had a televised funeral for the whole world to see him lying in state he was loved all over the world!! where were the dignitaries that loved him?? and the famous people that loved him? I think a stamp made in honer of his name? for the worldwide charity he was decated to in he was all about L.O.V.E. for the world! think the childrens hospital should be built like he wanted call the Michael Jackson World Childrens Hospital!! but not knowing MJ is at Forest Lawn cemetary for sure .. makes us wonder ?? WHERE IS MICHAEL JACKSON??seems so unreal so many unanswered questions?? this is SCARY!!
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 7:40 am
Dr. Conrad Murray's defense team commissioned a study on Beagle dogs to determine how much Propofol would have to be ingested to cause Michael Jackson's death, RadarOnline.com is exclusively reporting.
However, in a dramatic turnaround, attorney Michael Flanagan told Los Angeles Judge Michael Pastor on Wednesday outside the presence of the jury, that they wouldn't be pursuing the theory that Jackson had ingested Propofol.
"We are not going to assert at any point in this trial that Michael Jackson at any time orally ingested Propofol," Flanagan revealed. Flanagan said in open court that he had commissioned his own study about the oral ingestion of Propofol, and that findings from the study revealed that taking Propofol orally would not cause death.
"A study was done on Beagle dogs to determine how much Propofol would have to be orally consumed to cause death. The only other study that had been done on the the oral ingestion of Propofol was on pigs rectums. The study definitely involved more than two dogs. It's unknown if the dogs died, or suffered any harm," a source close to Dr. Murray tells RadarOnline.com.
Dr. Murray's lawyers aren't completely abandoning the Propofol defense however. "Dr. Murray's lawyers will likely put expert witnesses on the stand that will tell jurors Michael Jackson administered a dose of Propofol," a source close to the situation says.
Wow...I don't even know where to start. I feel offended as a scientist for this article. Beagle Dogs???
As a scientist we have protocols to follow when any experiment involves a living being, even if the experiment is carried out with rats.
I am not an expert on testing drugs on animals, but I know how strict those protocols are even in a 3rd world country. If the protocols are not set the scientist can lose the rights to do any futher research in its life.
First, the animals that are used on testing drugs are chosen in a specific order according to the test. First rats, the drug is giving to one population of rats and and the same number of rats takes a placebo. After that dead or alive rats are killed (terrible) and the drug distribuition is analyzed in all organs.
Now comes the second step, to test the drug on animals that have closest similarity with a human being, for example:
skin care for babies - rabbits (mostly the booty because the skin of rabbits are very similar to the skin of babies)
Liver, pancreas and stomach drugs - pigs (close to the human being).
I never heard anything about dogs and Beagles????? What?
It is terrible as it sounds the protocols for testing in animmals are really strict and the testing has to be justified as the last alternative and indispensable.
This article is just crazy..
I can't believe that US governnent and the drugs control at US would approved an experiment like this one just for a lawyer to use this in court.
If so, I cannot accept any critics from US in how my country handle things over here because we will be more serious and strict on animals testing than US.
outside the presence of the jury, that they wouldn't be pursuing the theory that Jackson had ingested Propofol.
For sure the defense said something to the judge, because when Shafer, the one who does research on propofol started his testimony the court ended up abruptaly.
But so far, I didn't see that the defense gave up on the theory. I saw in all questioning from the defense (Flanagan and Ed) trying to prove that the patient ingested propofol.
What I saw, was that the defense got kicked by the experts on this subject, for all the witness so far.
I am not sure about what is really happening, but taking in account my deep respect for US scientist I cannot believe in this article.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 7:43 am
posted by The Fairy on Saturday, October 15th 2011
I wouldnt be surprised if we already have this vid on the forum. The interview is from August 2009 with Chernoff talking about the case.
MJJ777HealTheWorld posted this video to show inconsistencies. In the comments you can read that one viewer "TheEchovoices" says:
Quote :
Strange how he speaks present times they are friends not they WERE friends
MJJ777HealThe World: Michael Jackson is NOT alive. Be respectful.
I am being respectful this guy is pissing me off, I am 1000000000000% behind Michael what are u reading into here ?
and they have a long somewhat heated discussion which im not going to get in the middle of, but it did also strike me how many times, Chernoff says "Michael Jackson is", "Michael Jackson has" and so on.
I could do without the hint from Chernoff that Michael wanted Murray there on "occasional nights" because Michael is eccentric, but I wonder why Chernoff said "occasional nights"
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 7:46 am
posted by Nimue on Sunday, October 16th 2011
Conrad Murray trial may be delayed due to death in witness's family By Alan Duke, CNN
Los Angeles (CNN) -- The trial of Michael Jackson's doctor may not resume until Tuesday because the father of the prosecution's last witness died, it was revealed at a hearing Friday.
Testimony in Dr. Conrad Murray's involuntary manslaughter trial was recessed Thursday afternoon so anesthesiology expert Dr. Steven Shafer could attend a medical conference in Chicago, but Deputy District Attorney David Walgren said Friday that Shafer never made it there because of the death in his family.
Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor, who is known for keeping tight control on his courtroom, scolded and fined prosecutor Walgren and his co-counsel, Deputy District Attorney Deborah Brazil, for being a few minutes late to Friday morning's hearing.
"People, you were late this morning by six minutes," Pastor said. "What is the reason for this, please?"
"We were just running late, your honor," Walgren said. "We apologize."
"Well, this has happened before," Pastor said, before ordering Walgren and Brazil to pay a $60 fine, $10 for each minute they were tardy to court.
Walgren blamed slow courthouse elevators when he and Brazil were 15 minutes late for a hearing last month.
Shafer, who is expected to give a detailed scientific explanation of how the surgical anesthetic propofol is metabolized in the human body, will be on the witness stand for at least a day once he returns from his father's funeral, according to Walgren.
The defense presentation would follow, lasting until next Friday or the following Monday, according to defense lawyer Nareg Gourjian
Along with two or three medical experts, the defense has lined up about a dozen patients of Murray to testify about how he's helped them.
Katherine Jackson is “livid” that Dr. Conrad Murray told cops two days after her beloved son, Michael Jackson died, that he provided solace to her and the singer's three children after the tragic death.
In fact, far from it, says the Jackson family matriarch, who claims that the embattled cardiologist made the whole thing up, RadarOnline.com is exclusively reporting.
Katherine Jackson called Deputy District Attorney David Walgren on Monday night, and told him that she was outraged that Dr. Murray made up such a preposterous tale.
"Katherine was almost beside herself with anger after she heard Dr. Murray telling cops that he comforted her and the grandchildren after her son was declared dead. it just never happened, Dr. Murray made the whole thing up. She is disgusted and outraged at Dr. Murray for even daring to suggest that he was there for her," a Jackson family insider tells RadarOnline.com.
Katherine Jackson's nephew, Trent Jackson told CNN's Alan Duke, that Michael's oldest son, Prince also says Dr. Murray never even spoke to the children.
According to Trent, the children were kept in an SUV outside of the UCLA Ronald Reagan Medical Center and it was Michael's manger, Frank DiLeo that escorted the children into the emergency room after their grandmother arrived.
Dr. Murray: They asked questions, and the children found out that daddy wasn't doing well, that he had passed away. And then they were weeping, really weeping...after they cried and cried and then his daughter uttered a lot of words of unhappiness, and you know she will live alone without her dad and she didn't want to be an orphan...She cried and was very stark. And then she asked to see him. And then that was another thing. How do you let children see him? I asked them to prepare Mr. Jackson's body, make it as presentable as possible, because I recommended an autopsy be performed, so that the children would be able to view their daddy and have them say good-bye to him at this time."
The source says that when Katherine apprised Prince of what had happened in court on Monday, he was more steadfast and determined than ever to take the stand for the prosecution.
"Katherine tells Michael's two oldest children, Prince and Paris what has happened in court everyday. Blanket is just too young to comprehend it, and doesn't ask questions. Prince was mortified when Katherine apprised him of what happened,” the Jackson insider told RadarOnline.com. “He is begging his grandmother to let him take the stand. The decision will be up to David Walgren though.
“Right now, its a 50/50 chance that Prince could take the stand. Prince doesn't want the jurors to feel sympathy for Dr. Murray, and felt that was the reason he made up the entire story about what happened at the hospital. The DA will assess the need to put Prince on the stand, after the defense rests it's case.”
video deleted/removed
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 7:49 am
posted by The Fairy on Monday, October 17th 2011
A solution has been found concerning the uploads of videos from the trial. "Gurgle1624" has uploaded his videos to a website, which now offers longer length videos and info about the drugs and the attorneys and so on.
I have so far posted the YouTube link to the specific witness testimony in each thread for each witness. As far as I can tell the videos on this new site is not divided into videos for each witness but for each day. A bit of a shame, but this is a nonbeliever site so they do not deal with the testimonies the way we do. But an interesting site..
original videos deleted/removed
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 7:53 am
posted by The Fairy on Monday, October 17th 2011
Quote :
Quote from thezen2580
the charges should be changed to first degree murder!!! this was a plan ..to kill MJ and get away with it!! the tape conrad used in court to try to show MJ being out of it on drugs.. Im sure conrad got him in this condition to tape and use in court! think MJ was a prisoner in his own home no house phone..he had one at neverland his cell number was being changed all the time so no one could contact him back.. MJ tried to get help!! to save his life!!! the tight security was to keep all away from MJ so he couldnt get help!! conrad dont mind being in jail for only 4 years to collect millions for killing MJ its worth it to him!! didnt MJ have a housekeeper? that cleaned his room? where is she? and where are the security tapes??????? so many lies! where is MJ ?? thought his funeral was disgusting! and was it real? you would think he would have had a televised funeral for the whole world to see him lying in state he was loved all over the world!! where were the dignitaries that loved him?? and the famous people that loved him? I think a stamp made in honer of his name? for the worldwide charity he was decated to in he was all about L.O.V.E. for the world! think the childrens hospital should be built like he wanted call the Michael Jackson World Childrens Hospital!! but not knowing MJ is at Forest Lawn cemetary for sure .. makes us wonder ?? WHERE IS MICHAEL JACKSON??seems so unreal so many unanswered questions?? this is SCARY!!
Sorry it took me a little while to reply ti this one, Thezen2580.
Yes it is indeed a little scary. There are so many emotions involved in this and we see some scary pictures in the courtroom. It depends of course whether a person is a non believer or does indeed believe in the hoax. I can only reply to this as a hoax believer. I believe Michael is alive and well and therefore it is hard to ask for Murray to go to jail. I also do believe that there really was a group of people out to kill Michael. A very influential group who rules society and this is the most scary part of it.
Michael outthought these plans to kill him and he hoaxed his death to seek a way to set up the people really guilty of these plans. There is a possibility that he worked together with Murray and therefore Murray is only guilty of being part of a hoax. There is also the possibility that Murray was played by Michael without Murray knowing this, meaning that the plan was for Murray to kill Michael and Michael let him believe he had no idea of what was going on. But we must consider the facts that Michael never took any drugs, so Murray must have known he wasnt being "injected", unless Michael cheated Murray by pretending he was in fact taking the drugs.
The possibilities are endless and part of what makes this hoax so interesting and intriguing. Michael is a genius and it is awsome to see him work. He is also a master of manipulation (for the good that is)
But we can surely agree that whoever wanted Michael dead must face a trial of first degree murder. A larger group like AEG or the people behind AEG can not be put on trial as it is only possible to charge individuals, but as we know there is a pending lawsuits for some of these people.
In response to the questions about the funeral. I believe it was part of the hoax and therefore certain people were present and other certain people were not. We have on other threads here seen overwhelming indications that the funeral was filmed inside and not on the real location at Forest Lawn.
Yes we do have testimonies which are VERY interesting, but which we havent heard about yet. The housekeeper, the cleaning lady, the indoor security staff and so on. But I believe this will turn up later. Possibly after the trial.
Michael is alive and well and he will be back in due time aka his own time. There is still a while for that to happen. Please keep the faith.
Seems that so far we do not know if the court's resumption will be on Tuesday (Oct 18)
Jackson doctor's defense looms in trial's 4th week ANTHONY McCARTNEY, AP Entertainment Writer Updated 07:42 p.m., Sunday, October 16, 2011
LOS ANGELES (AP) — The trial of Michael Jackson's personal physician will enter a new phase this week, with the doctor's attorneys trying to counter three weeks of damaging testimony and attempting to show that the singer somehow caused his own death.
Lawyers for Dr. Conrad Murray have told jurors that the involuntary manslaughter case will hinge on the science of what killed Jackson in June 2009. They will call their own experts to counter prosecution witnesses who have repeatedly told the panel that Murray was reckless and beyond the fringes of medicine when he administered the anesthetic propofol to help Jackson sleep.
It was not clear when the defense would get to start its presentation. Monday's testimony was canceled because the government's final witness, Dr. Steven Shafer, will be unavailable. Court spokeswoman Mary Hearn said Sunday the trial's resumption would be announced when more information becomes available.
The Houston-based cardiologist has pleaded not guilty and his attorneys continue to maintain that Jackson somehow gave himself the fatal dose of medication. They have abandoned the theory that Jackson died after swallowing propofol, but now contend he was killed after taking several pills of the sedative lorazepam and possibly giving himself a shot of propofol after Murray left the singer's bedroom.
Before the defense lays out its case — expected to consist of 15 witnesses and last until the end of the month — it will have to contend with Shafer. The Columbia University researcher and professor helped write the warnings and directions included with every vial of propofol — warnings a prosecutor said in opening statements that Murray ignored.
Defense attorney Nareg Gourjian declined to say Friday who Murray's team would call to testify, but told the judge they would include police officers, experts and some character witnesses. He was not asked, nor did he mention, whether Murray would testify in his own defense.
It seems unlikely that Murray will testify. Jurors have already heard his more-than-two-hour interview in which he laid out his version of events before Jackson's death to a detective who acknowledges he wasn't conducting an interrogation.
If Murray takes the stand, he would undoubtedly be asked by prosecutors about several unanswered questions, such as why he never told paramedics or ER doctors about giving Jackson propofol, why he never told police he was on the phone for long stretches of the morning Jackson died, and why he recorded the singer when he was impaired, stumbling his way through his plans for a children's hospital and cementing a legacy larger than those attained by Elvis Presley or The Beatles.
In his opening statement to jurors, lead defense attorney Ed Chernoff said Murray's team would try to answer two fundamental questions:
"First, how did Michael Jackson get to this point, this desperate point," Chernoff said. "And second, what happened when Dr. Murray was out of the room?"
Prosecution witnesses have acknowledged that only Jackson and Murray know what really happened, but two medical experts testified last week that Murray was grossly negligent. Even if Jackson somehow was able to give himself medication after Murray left the room, the doctor should have been closely monitoring the singer and should have never left any medications within arms' reach, the doctors said.
Ellyn Garofalo, who last year won an acquittal for one of Anna Nicole Smith's doctors charged with improperly prescribing pain medications, said Murray's team should focus on their expert testimony and not start calling character witnesses.
"If they start to call character witnesses, they don't have a great deal of faith in their defense," she said.
She said the experts should be able to show that the case isn't as simple as prosecutors have claimed, and that it is filled with "all kinds of shades of gray."
Murray's attorneys should also try to argue that prosecutors should not be second-guessing medical decisions. "Do we really want the DA's office making medical decisions for doctors," she asked.
Murray's case, she noted, differs in one major respect from the case against her client, who was never accused of causing Smith's death.
Garofalo said Murray's case will be harder to win, and prosecutors so far have done a solid job of showing that the doctor shouldn't have been giving Jackson propofol as a sleep aid in the superstar's bedroom.
"It's a strong case because you have somebody dead after somebody did something that is unheard of," Garofalo said.
Murray's defense strategy also appears to involve calling hostile witnesses, including police officers who prosecutors did not call during their case. The defense scored some points early in the trial by getting a coroner's investigator to acknowledge that she moved some evidence around in Jackson's bedroom before photographing it and that she didn't keep all her notes. The officers would likely undergo the similar harsh questioning about their decisions.
They may also call doctors who previously treated Jackson but have never been formally accused of wrongdoing. They are barred from calling one doctor whose name has been repeatedly mentioned during the trial — Jackson's longtime dermatologist Dr. Arnold Klein.
Murray's team may also call Jackson's hairdresser, Karen Faye, who they have said will testify that the singer was distraught at the prospect of performing 50 comeback concerts at London's O2 arena. Such an account would be in contrast with several other witnesses who said Jackson was excited about the concerts and that his three children would see him perform.
The trial, which is entering its fourth week, has moved rapidly, with 33 witnesses so far and both sides presenting more than 250 pieces of evidence. At its current pace, jurors should receive the case next week.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 8:02 am
posted by Nimue on Monday, October 17th 2011
I am going to post here but I am not sure if it is the right thread.
Nice to have you here with us Thezen2580, I understand how confusing this can be. Most of what we get comes from the media and sometimes they are not the truth, but tales created by them to serve their own agenda.
Since Thezen has addressed the issue of Michael's bedroom I will address this here:
Quote :
Thezen quote:
didnt MJ have a housekeeper? that cleaned his room? where is she?
I recall an interview with Michael about Neverland and bubbles, in this interview Michael says he would clean his bedroom, dust the windows and such with bubbles. So I take Michael does not like anyone from his staff in his bedroom.
Also it was already said that not even the housekeepers were allowed to go to his bedroom.
I took some pictures of what we could say a "messy" bedroom.. Let's see:
I marked in read suitcases and boxes.
it looks to me as someone packing to move...
I marked in yellow here the neat and clean bed.
We can see in this picture the bed is clean, but in read we have empty shelf and papers on the floor, like someone sorting out what is going and what is garbage.
Again look at the chairs, they are not with piles of papers, looking like someone was using them to sit and look through the papers and books on the floor.
Here again. the chairs are clean but the top shelf is empty and the box full of papers and books, again someone is packing.
In the bathroom, a large box and a suitcase.
Of course some messed up the place after Michael left and we can see it in the two pictures bellow:
But still the mess we see is the mess that we do when we are packing for moving.
Quote :
Quote from Thezen
home no house phone..
Well, I am not sure if Michael had a land line on his bedroom, but for sure there was one at bedroom2:
If it was disconnected or not we will never now.
But Michael has/had a cell phone, as Michael Amir stated as his testimony. According to MJ Estate documents Michael use to spend 3000 dollars a month in phone calls from his cell phone.
I wonder, why didn't his cell phone was not taken by LAPD?
We hear Michael's voice record on Murray's iphone but where did it come from?
Who did Michael call?
Is Michael's cell phone with him right now?
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 8:10 am
posted by The Fairy on Monday, October 17th 2011
Quote :
Quote from Nimue on Monday, October 17th 2011 @ 5:35 AM
Since Thezen has addressed the issue of Michael's bedroom I will address this here:
Quote :
Thezen quote:
didnt MJ have a housekeeper? that cleaned his room? where is she?
I recall an interview with Michael about Neverland and bubbles, in this interview Michael says he would clean his bedroom, dust the windows and such with bubbles. So I take Michael does not like anyone from his staff in his bedroom Also it was already said that not even the housekeepers were allowed to go to his bedroom.
Just a little remark to the issue of his housekeeper. It is odd that it isnt even mentioned in the court as to whether he had one or not. But I think we have one more hint to Michael's trial. I was going to use this in a vid but the point here is that Michael had some of his staff turn against him at his trial. Many of them had already sold their story to the tabloids and therefore stuck to the lies when they took the stand. One issue that Tom Sneddon wouldnt let go off was that Michael had an obsession with doing enemas. His maid testified that she saw him jumping around in ecstacy after having done an enema, that he would have severe diarhea and had to use tampons to stop it and those filthy tampons he would throw all around the bathroom floor and never throw them out. After these testimonies there were bodyguards/security staff saying they had seen it also although the maid had testified that she was the only staff member with access to his bedroom and bathroom. The testimonies are so far out that noone believed them, but they damaged Michael's reputation and tabloid writers like Victor Gutierrez picked up on these lies and help feeding Tom Sneddon with them. The next part is a little graphic... sorry..
“The boy’s observations were confirmed by several of [Gutierrez’s] private employees who worked with him during different years. “I know very well what enemas are. I saw bottles in a pointed shape and another wide one for the liquid in his bathroom,” said Adrian MacManus, personal maid of the [man], who replaced Blanca Francia, and thus inherited the role of being the only employee who had access to his bedroom. “I was the one who cleaned them. He had an enema daily.”
“Jordi and his relationship was already like that of a couple. Jordie was seeing intimate details of [his] life that nobody else in the world would imagine about [him]. One of these was to see his friend, the most famous man in the world, insert hot liquids into his anus with a special bottle. “I didn’t understand what that was for,” Jordie confessed to his best friend. “I saw him do it for hours. He told me that it felt good, it excited him and that many people did it for hygiene. I had seen an ‘ass washer’ in his bathroom, as he called that little toilet where he sat to wash himself. He would move around in the bathroom with pleasure when he did it. At first it seemed strange, but later I got used to seeing it. He told me that his sister did it to lose weight.”
I believe the mess and the missing housekeeper is part of a reminder of Michael's trial, but I am also positive that Michael never again allowed anyone into his private rooms after experiencing the lies, people would tell if they could say they had access.
Quote :
Quote from Nimue on Monday, October 17th 2011 @ 5:35 AM
it looks to me as someone packing to move...We can see in this picture the bed is clean, but in read we have empty shelf and papers on the floor, like someone sorting out what is going and what is garbage.
Yes I agree that there are indications as if someone is getting ready to move because of the piles of what stays and what goes. If Michael planned to go to London he wouldnt need to prepare to move as he was coming back (I dont know if there is any info of what he was going to do with this huge rent at Carolwood Dr if he apparently had no money, if he was in fact going on tour for a long time) Furthermore this doesnt look like someone who is drugged out of their wits and cant attend rehearsals. When you feel ill you dont start a major clean up and sort out of your stuff. It looks more like he was going on a hoax.
Quote :
Quote from Nimue on Monday, October 17th 2011 @ 5:35 AM
Of course some messed up the place after Michael left and we can see it in the two pictures bellow:
Yeah another hint to his trial and the mess the LAPD made at Neverland. The tabloids showed how much mess he had at Neverland and damaged his reputation, but it turned out the pictures were taken after the police had done their search warrent of cutting open matresses etc.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 8:11 am
posted by Nimue on Monday, October 17th 2011
The Fairy wrote:
Yes I agree that there are indications as if someone is getting ready to move because of the piles of what stays and what goes. If Michael planned to go to London he wouldnt need to prepare to move as he was coming back (I dont know if there is any info of what he was going to do with this huge rent at Carolwood Dr if he apparently had no money, if he was in fact going on tour for a long time).Furthermore this doesnt look like someone who is drugged out of their wits and cant attend rehearsals. When you feel ill you dont start a major clean up and sort out of your stuff.It looks more like he was going on a hoax.
I don't know what he was going to do with Carolwood dr. house. I think this house was rented only for hoax purposes
He still kept 2 houses at Las Vegas, one was rented until September 2010 and his own house that was sold at 2010. In one of these houses his 3 Rolls Royces (his gift to his children) were parked.
And we cannot forget, that Michael Amir said that on Jun 25 he was getting ready to see some "storage" facilities when he got the call from Murray.
Listen to William, as he says the court is keeping the charges on the wrong name "Conrad Murray", as we discussed before "Murray" is the middle name of his first wife. Very interesting:
And this is Pearl video, you know the drill:
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 8:17 am
posted by The Fairy on Monday, October 17th 2011
Quote :
Quote from Nimue on Monday, October 17th 2011 @ 9:06 AM
Listen to William, as he says the court is keeping the charges on the wrong name "Conrad Murray", as we discussed before "Murray" is the middle name of his first wife. Very interesting:
First of all PearlJr grings nothing new to the discussion. She doesnt have the exclusives of inside court reports so she is repeating what most other hoax vids have been saying. William always has interesting things and we can use it although he is not a hoaxbeliever. He says that this is a carefully wellplanned murder and it originally was. But of course as hoaxers we would call it a carefully wellplanned hoax. Still the question if Murray "intended" to kill Michael. If he didnt he shuoldnt go to jail because Michael is still alive. As always William concludes there is smt wrong with the system and as I have tried to explain him; that is exactly one of the reasons Michael hoaxed. Not only did he plan the hoax in order to expose of the bad guys.. he planned it to show us all how the system works. Interesting about the maiden name of his wife.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 8:20 am
posted by MaryJo on Monday, October 17th 2011
Quote :
Quote from Nimue on Monday, October 17th 2011 @ 5:35 AM
But Michael has/had a cell phone, as Michael Amir stated as his testimony. According to MJ Estate documents Michael use to spend 3000 dollars a month in phone calls from his cell phone.
I'm trying to figure out, how he could spend $3,000. / month on cell phone bill.
With my cell phone plan, I pay $67. / mth w/ UNLIMITED calling day, nite & weekends plus UNLIMITED text messaging. Sure, he probly has international calling but even with that I'm sure theres reasonable priced plan w/ UNLIMITED mins.
So, how is it, MJ pays $3,000./mth?????
Pearljr I'm attending evidentiary hearing Tuesday 2 learn what new finding is all about-Watch "Alive" because there's always 2 sides 2 every story
Pearljr MJ swallowing 8 Lorazepam pills is being disputed by new test results, so is it time 4 Murray to cop a plea? Court MAY resume Wednesday
IMO soundsl like exagerated fabrication.
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 8:22 am
posted by Nimue on Monday, October 17th 2011
Quote :
Quote from MaryJo on Monday, October 17th 2011 @ 12:39 PM
I'm trying to figure out, how he could spend $3,000. / month on cell phone bill.
With my cell phone plan, I pay $67. / mth w/ UNLIMITED calling day, nite & weekends plus UNLIMITED text messaging. Sure, he probly has international calling but even with that I'm sure theres reasonable priced plan w/ UNLIMITED mins.
So, how is it, MJ pays $3,000./mth????? IMO soundsl like exagerated fabrication.
Well, I think Michael could spend $3,000 easly a month on cell phone. He likes to call England, Ireland friends in the middle of the night, and he likes to talk on the phone.
This appeared on MJ Estate court documents in the first year as part of the bills paid by the estate. If it is exagerated it was meant to call attention that Michael has a cell phone.
I cannot even dream to spend that much.
But the question remains:
Where is this cell phone? or
Why wasn't this cell phone analyzed by LAPD?
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 8:27 am
posted by Nimue on Tuesday, October 18th 2011
Well, now we know what Pearl.. will see in court.
Trial of Michael Jackson's doctor postponed
The manslaughter trial of Michael Jackson's personal doctor, which was shut down Monday because of a death in the family of a prosecution witness, was further postponed until Wednesday.
Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor said he was putting off trial testimony for two reasons: giving Steven Shafer of New York, the witness, more time to handle family matters, and allowing defendant Conrad Murray's lawyers to obtain experts' response to a new toxicology test the coroner's office performed for the prosecution.
At a sometimes ill-tempered hearing with Murray and the jury absent Monday, defense lawyers Ed Chernoff and J. Michael Flanagan objected to prosecution plans to present the new test on Jackson's stomach contents when they resume questioning Shafer, an anesthesiologist.
Pastor gave the defense more time to find its own expert opinions to support cross-examination of Shafer. The judge scheduled another hearing for Tuesday afternoon to discuss the status of the defense's preparation.
Prosecutor David Walgren said Monday that his office had requested that Jackson's stomach contents be retested for lorazepam. This, he said, was in response to a defense-commissioned toxicology report on lorazepam that Flanagan presented to the jury last week during cross-examination of the coroner's toxicologist, Dan Anderson.
The defense's lab report enabled Flanagan to say there was enough lorazepam in the singer's stomach to prove that he had swallowed eight 2-milligram tablets of lorazepam, "enough to put six people to sleep."
By contrast, the new report that Walgren ordered says there was much less lorazepam than the defense claims.
In addition to questioning Shafer on the coroner's latest test, Walgren will recall Anderson to testify to his office's new report, he said.
The hearing grew tense after defense lawyers accused the prosecution of violating a September 2010 court order forbidding new tests on medical evidence without specific permission from the judge. Walgren said the order related only to syringes and other medical supplies, not to "biological evidence" such as stomach contents.
The defense ultimately agreed and apologized. "We're sorry, David," Chernoff said in a tone of sarcasm. "You did not violate a court order."
The judge interrupted. "His name is not David," Pastor said, implying that Chernoff should have addressed his opponent more formally.
Pastor ended the spat by saying, "There was an allegation the facts do not support, and there's an apology by the defense."
Chernoff said that having until Wednesday to study Anderson's new report "may rectify the problem." He had suggested not allowing Walgren to offer the report until the prosecution's rebuttal case, which will follow the presentation of the defense's expected 15 witnesses. Pastor said he would prefer that the lorazepam evidence be introduced this week during the prosecution's main case
Deputy District Attorney David Walgren met recently with Michael Jackson's oldest son Prince and Katherine Jackson to discuss the possibility of the King of Pop's son being called to testify at the involuntary manslaughter trial of Dr. Conrad Murray.
The top secret meeting was held at Katherine's gated Calabasas residence. "Walgren met with Prince and Katherine Jackson to discuss Prince taking the stand. Katherine wants to ensure that Prince will be protected as much as possible," a Jackson family insider told
"Even though she is steadfastly against Prince testifying, she recognizes this is something that he very much wants to do. Remember, from testimony heard so far, when he discovered Michael Jackson wasn't breathing Murray told the chef to send Prince up to the bedroom. Dr. Murray brought Prince into this. Prince has information that is clearly relevant to the proceedings. Make no mistake, Prince would have been called as a witness already if he was an adult."
Prince would be called as a rebuttal witness by the prosecution, and that decision will be made by the District Attorney after the defense presents their case. "Prince does have information that would be helpful for the jury to hear. However, it's a double-edged sword of putting a child in this case on the stand. This could be very traumatic and Prince, despite all assurances that he can handle it, well, you never know until it actually happens," the source says." How would he do under cross examination from Dr. Murray's lawyers? How will he react to seeing Dr. Murray in court? The last time Prince saw Dr. Murray was the day his dad died, and a lot has changed in his world since then."
Prince and Katherine were told by the Deputy D.A., "there is a 50/50 chance that he will take the stand. Prince will be prepared if called to testify. Katherine and Prince trust the Deputy D.A., and Katherine knows that this is very, very important to her grandson, so in the end, she will not stand in the way of him doing this," the insider says.
Testimony will resume on Wednesday, October 19, with the prosecution's final witness, Dr. Steven Shafer, taking the stand once again.
Dr. Murray's lawyer, Ed Chernoff, says the defense will call 15 witnesses.
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 8:33 am
posted by ElkeHassell on Tuesday, October 18th 2011
WILL THE REAL DR. CONRAD MURRAY PLEASE STAND UP! lol
original video deleted/removed
I know you posted this video up there with the slogan "but he is a doctor - is he???
Looking at the end of the video you see the real Dr. Murray behind the Defense team. LOL Priceless
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 8:35 am
posted by GailShaw on Tuesday, October 18th 2011
It sure is priceless.Thanks Elke.
Here is another part of William Waegners videos which followed the one already posted here.
He talks about Murray and jail time.Very good also.
Cheers
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 8:37 am
posted by ElkeHassell on Tuesday, October 18th 2011
Well, well, well, and if this is not a NEW DEVELOPMENT AT THE 24TH HOUR. Is it for real that people still think that this is a REAL CASE
Girls how do I post the actual video on here????
Nimue
Posts : 1281 Join date : 2013-09-22
Subject: Re: Comments about the trial 9th October 2013, 8:39 am
posted by Nimue on Wednesday, October 19th 2011
Quote :
Quote from ElkeHassell on Tuesday, October 18th 2011 @ 8:58 PM
Well, well, well, and if this is not a NEW DEVELOPMENT AT THE 24TH HOUR. Is it for real that people still think that this is a REAL CASE
Well, Elke I think only a few will noticed something is wrong in this case that does not add up.
The hoaxers noticed that problems with Murray's name from the start back to 2009, the hoaxers noticed the problems with his medical license way back to 2010. We even have here some posts about an enquire made by one of our members to the Medical Board about Murray medical license.
The hoaxers also showed all the wrongs on the autopsy report and the lack of precision in the inverstigation a long time ago.
Only now William Wagener (non believer) notice that and some other non believers also.
For whom is new at the hoax world, these things may seem a surprise but it is really not. We knew all of that from the start.
Quote :
Quote from ElkeHassell on Tuesday, October 18th 2011 @ 8:58 PM
Elke, to post the youtube video is easy, just posting the link do it, but sometimes if the link is incomplete it does not show as a video, but we can still watch.
Sometimes this happens even with Fairy hehehehehe. I fixed your link. I am going to show how the link looks after I have fixed (the one below will not work on purpose):
